TLDR:
Windows 11 v24H2 and beyond will have Recall installed on every system. Attempting to remove Recall will now break some file explorer features such as tabs.
YT Video (5min)
Might be a stupid question but this requires a NPU right? I told some fellas about it and there response was something like does not matter because they have older hardware so it can’t run anyway. So what happens to win 11 PCs with no NPU?
AFAIK Windows 11 requires TPM 2.0, which in and of itself limits hardware ('cos who cares about ewaste, right?), but am unaware of anything hardware-specific for “AI”.
Your PC needs the following minimum system requirements for Recall:
- A Copilot+ PC
That links to https://www.microsoft.com/en-gb/windows/copilot-plus-pcs#faq1
Copilot+ PCs are a new class of Windows 11 AI PCs that are powered by a turbocharged neural processing unit (NPU) – a specialised computer chip for AI-intensive processes like real-time translations and image generation – that can perform more than 40 trillion operations per second (TOPS).
So what happens when a win 11 PC with no NPU gets updated to the version of windows with recall and recall is installed? Does it just sit dormant like it’s deactivated because there are tons of win 11 PC that have no NPU.
I assume that’s what happens, but you know what happens when you do that!
So just the Surface thingies?
There’s Dell, HP, Lenovo and Samsung laptops too: https://www.microsoft.com/en-gb/windows/copilot-plus-pcs
So they’re expanding… still seems to be not all that much hardware support, weird that they’re pushing it so soon.
Recall was the headline feature for Copilot+ PCs.
When a wave of ARM powered Windows laptops, and now a few desktops launched, they were all Copilot+ for whatever reason. They all marketed the NPU, but struggled to really say what the NPU unlocked that you couldn’t do with a CPU or GPU. Other marketing gimmicks were a better background blur and an AI drawing assistant in I think paint. I think you could also do “AI stuff” in photos, but don’t think that was local.
Honestly, I think everyone missed the punchline on ARM. The promise is lower heat and greater battery life. There was no need to bundle that with AI gimmicks. But clearly a PM thought so and now they’re trying to save face. Really taking advantage of ARM and pushing for battery life, by optimizing the kernal and changing what happens in standby, would probably be a bigger engineering lift.
/Thoughts from a rando who bought an ARM powered Windows laptop and generally likes it but has never touched the NPU enabled stuff
The promise is lower heat and greater battery life. There was no need to bundle that with AI gimmicks.
But how else are you gonna bring down battery life to be on par with x86?
/s
turbocharged
I wonder where the exhaust fumes come from for the turbocharger. How many cylinders do you think the engine of an average Copilot+ PC have? How much extra torque can they get out of it?
Fuck idiotic marketing, words have meaning.
Recall does not utilize NPU, people got it running on pre X Elite Arm PCs.
how the fuck do you even begin making recall a dependency for explorer?
Windows Debloat Tool:
https://github.com/LeDragoX/Win-Debloat-Tools
I run this on any new Win install. I also suggest Portmaster so you know where your data is going.
However, if you can, it is really worth switching to Linux. Linux is built as a tool by the people using the tool. Windows is making a product. Enough said.
If people would like to “try Linux before you buy,” check out DistroSea. It spins up a virtual machine of whatever distro and flavour you choose to try.
There are a surprising and growing number of Linux compatible tools. Software is usually why people have a hard time switching. If you’re dependent on Photoshop/Adobe, check out:
https://www.blackmagicdesign.com/products/davinciresolve
Gamers should check put:
This site shows how well games run on Proton (compatibility tool) and people offer solutions to get them running if there’s any snags.
Linux is built as a tool by the people using the tool.
And that’s exactly how it feels to non-programmers or not-enthusiasts jus trying to exist.
And those devs (not all but more or less most) will troubleshoot and gear it towards how they see fit with less newbie testing.DaVinci Resolve is not a replacement for Photoshop/Adobe as a whole, but it is a decent replacement for Adobe products AfterEffects and Premier.
For Photoshop alternatives, I’d start with GIMP for photo editing or Krita for illustration and digital painting.
I’m still on Windows because my drawing app of choice is Clip Studio Paint, which has no Linux version. I’ve read and watched several guides to getting CSP running on Linux, but it still scares me off.
But this Recall thing is so insidious to me… I might try to get it working on Linux anyway.
I love Krita!! I put my specialty software into a virtual machine, aka the shame box. You can disable networking for it. 😈
I’ve been a LONG time user of Adobe, grew up with PhotoDeluxe and pre-suite Photoshop and used every version of Cretive Suite since my parents ran a graphic design business. I made all my high school essays in InDesign CS4. Suffice to say, growing bitter over proprietary software in the last few years has been painful but I’m doing my best to move to only FOSS.
There was a point in time I tried replacing Premiere with DaVinci Resolve, but I quickly noticed it was oriented for color correction, and some of its features for composition were locked behind Fusion. These days, if you can believe it, I do all my video editing in Blender. It’s still got a long way to go, but since v4 the VSE has gotten really good. I’d like to try kdenlive when I finish migrating to Linux, but on Windows it basically doesn’t support GPU encoding which is a dealbreaker for me.
Adobe Fresco is replaced quite well by Krita. It has a learning curve but is far more powerful as a result. I’m still learning but I’m impressed.
I don’t really like Scribus, but I don’t really have a need for software like InDesign, so I haven’t had to worry about it.
I’ve used Inkscape way back just because it was portable when Illustrator wasn’t. It was pretty minimal back then but I can see it’s grown greatly in depth. The workflow is enough to be disruptive, but not too badly to work through I think.
And finally the titan, Photoshop. It’s such a massive and ubiquitous software that it simply cannot be replaced by any single program. At least since I moved to drawing in Fresco I don’t use PS for that, but again Krita is a fine replacement. Pixel art in PS is very normal too, but that’s replaced quite nicely by Aseprite, it’s more capable in that space and still quite easy to use if you don’t know its features. It’s the photo editing and general purpose image editing that’s the real challenge. I keep hoping that version 3 of GIMP will magically fix its problems, but in the meantime it’s frustratingly clear that it’s built by software engineers, not artists, but it’s often made out that it’s everybody else’s burden to forget everything they know and start from scratch to learn its special workflow. There’s an interesting patch someone made called PhotoGIMP that’s supposed to improve that, but I haven’t spent enough time with it to really say. Currently my only alternative is Photopea. It works great right now, but I don’t like that it’s a web app and not FOSS. I really hope I can eventually find an alternative that I can finally be comfortable with.
For Photoshop alternatives, I’d start with GIMP for photo editing
I have always felt that GIMP was the ultimate software Camel. As in, designed by a committee to include everything and the kitchen sink without any coherent UI/UX.
It’s the software industry’s 1965 Lada masquerading as a 2024 model.
If it wasn’t for Paint.NET still missing vectorized/sprite-based text (it instantly rasterizes text the moment focus leaves it), I don’t think I could ever use GIMP.
Just want to weigh in on Resolve. I was able to get the free version running on Mint, but the free version can’t do H.264. I then bought Resolve Studio, but activating the license did not work so I ended up on Windows for video editing.
I also had to switch back to Windows for Affinity, as I have been using Photoshop for years and I have yet to find another piece of software (excluding Affinity) I can move at speed in.
Once I get the content creation off Windows, I can probably leave it behind for good.
What happens if you copy explorer.exe from a prior release of Windows and replace the recall-infested version?
At that point why bother? Either accept it and move on, or axe the partition and start browsing forums full of furry pfp gentleanimals advising you on how to fix your latest issue with your new linux installation.
I know you’re mixing in joking with your response, but can I point out the irony that a Linux advocate is telling me essentially “don’t try to hack a solution, just give it up entirely and adopt a completely different product”. That is the opposite of the Linux mindset I’m familiar with.
It’s because Linux isn’t actually trying to work against you, even if it may feel that way to a noobie at first. Guaranteed this requirement exists to make Recall impossible to uninstall, and for no other reason.
The question isn’t “why take the time to hack windows” it’s “why keep supporting a company that requires you to undo so much of the product just to maintain control and privacy with your own hardware, and which actively seeks to sabotage attempts to do so.”
It’s because Linux isn’t actually trying to work against you, even if it may feel that way to a noobie at first.
Your statement suggest that if Windows is “trying to work against you” then Linux is “trying to work for you”. I don’t believe that is the case either. Linux works for itself, and if what you want can be done with Linux, great! If you have the skills to alter Linux to do what you want, also great! If you have neither of those, then you’ll be left without a specific solution. Linux is great, but trying to pitch it as purely altruistic and supportive isn’t accurate and could lead those trying it to abandon it early because their own experience doesn’t meet this implicit expectation.
The question isn’t “why take the time to hack windows” it’s “why keep supporting a company that requires you to undo so much of the product just to maintain control and privacy with your own hardware, and which actively seeks to sabotage attempts to do so.”
You don’t escape that problem entirely in Linux, it just takes different forms. Proprietary vendor Linux hardware drivers would be a perfect example.
So why hack Windows to make it do what you want? Because that was one of the basic tenets underlying Linux. There is no perfect operating system, just different tradeoffs. If one OS meets most of your needs for a specific task, and you have a way to hack it to fix the rest, thats the better solution rather than trying to reinvent the wheel. Departing from this idea moves the definition of computing from a tool to a religion/social movement. That’s fine for some, but not my calling.
Your statement suggest that if Windows is “trying to work against you” then Linux is “trying to work for you”.
That’s literally not what I said, nor what I implied. If you want to interpret it that way it’s your choice, but I’m not going to defend a statement I didn’t make and didn’t try to make.
You don’t escape that problem entirely in Linux, it just takes different forms. Proprietary vendor Linux hardware drivers would be a perfect example.
I feel like you aren’t distinguishing between “problem exists” and “problem exists because the makers of my OS want it to exist.”
So why hack Windows to make it do what you want?
I literally said this was NOT the question.
I’m not trying to strawman you here, so lets revisit these to make sure we understand what each other is saying.
Your statement suggest that if Windows is “trying to work against you” then Linux is “trying to work for you”.
That’s literally not what I said, nor what I implied. If you want to interpret it that way it’s your choice, but I’m not going to defend a statement I didn’t make and didn’t try to make.
I don’t understand why you’d bring up “trying to work against you” if you weren’t implying that Linux was the opposite. I suggested you were implying it was the opposite, and you’re communicating now that is not what you mean. I don’t think you’re suggesting that Linux “is trying to work against you”. So if its not a positive, and not a negative, you’re suggesting what…neutral? As in, “Linux is neither trying to work against you nor is trying to help you”. I suppose I can agree with that, but I’m not sure how that supports your argument.
What am I missing you are trying to communicate with your statement?
You don’t escape that problem entirely in Linux, it just takes different forms. Proprietary vendor Linux hardware drivers would be a perfect example.
I feel like you aren’t distinguishing between “problem exists” and “problem exists because the makers of my OS want it to exist.”
You’re right, I’m not distinguishing between them because as an end user the reason is irrelevant. I’m left with the same result, with the same choices about how to solve it for myself. I’m not trying to save the world. I’m trying to get my computing done.
So why hack Windows to make it do what you want? I literally said this was NOT the question.
My apologies for the paraprhasing of your position of my position.
Lets look at your exact question:
“why keep supporting a company that requires you to undo so much of the product just to maintain control and privacy with your own hardware, and which actively seeks to sabotage attempts to do so.”
My answer: Because I’m not trying to save the world. I’m trying to get my computing done. If a hack to the existing product can do that faster than changing the world, then the hack is the better choice FOR ME. If its a social/religious movement for you, feel free to spread the “good word”. I won’t stop you, but I’m not interested in joining your evangelistic endeavor.
Man, if “Microsoft is actively trying to take control of my hardware and prevent me from deciding how it is used” and “Linux has a learning curve and lacks market dominance to get hardware manufacturers to play with them sometimes” seem like equivalent circumstances to you, there is no number of iterations to this back and forth that are going to arrive at any common ground between you and I. I can only say good day to you.
Guaranteed this requirement exists to make Recall impossible to uninstall, and for no other reason.
Or maybe it’s so you can use it in search box in explorer.exe
Incompatible DLLs most likely.
So, iirc, recall was a copilot+ PC “feature”. Will this recall integration be the case on “normal” x86 PCs as well?
I moved all my personal stuff over to Windows about a year and a half ago. Unfortunately, there’s still a few things in my life that requires windows…
So, I just bought a new laptop. It came with Windows 11. But anyways, I’m writing this comment from a freshly installed Bazzite Linux OS.
I remember them doing this with Internet Explorer back in the 90s.
“We can’t remove this thing we don’t want to remove! Look! It’s hastily integrated with the OS! We can’t remove it ever!”
MIT license:
Explore a beautiful Windows-first design. Manage all your files with increased productivity. Work across multiple folders with tabs. And so much more.
It looks nice, and has extra features like tabs, tagging 7zip/archive management, cloud drives, git integration, comparing file hashes, etc.
The only issue I had was performance, it took a long time to start each time. I’m planning on trying it again sometime later
Whoa. I wonder if explorer can be ripped out entirely and replace with this
explorer.exeis still used for desktop and probably other stuff as well, so it might not be possible without using 3rd party shell replacement and not many exist.
Thank goodness for Linux.
Switched a few months ago and glad I did
After all the fud and opposition they’ve pushed against it over the years. It’s nice to see them finally do good things to help it.
Quick edit to add that it couldn’t come at a better time now that there are companies like system 76 out there. Making Linux compatible systems that ship with Linux that you can actually recommend to someone who is a novice to pick up. They may be on a more expensive side. But what’s your privacy worth?
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A few cents per gigabyte ackshually.
Owned a system 76 unit years ago. Was lacking in the QC area.
I switched to a Framework 13 after having a system76 Darter Pro, and it’s a whole other league. Incredibly well-built, feels great, runs great, flashy as hell, even the fingerprint reader works out of the box with Fedora KDE.
I’m sudoing in the terminal with my fingers! It’s magic! And it just works!
Also, I managed to drop it in the most stupid way so it bent the whole case, and I could get it fixed for 200 EUR, one day shipping and 20 minutes of work by myself, and that was a full casing swap, so bottom assembly plus keyboard assembly, whole case but the mobo and the stuff on it.
This is what having a laptop should work like. That’s what they took from you.
Their laptops are built on third party chassis. I have their keyboard and that thing is SOLID. I expect their desktops (that are custom made) are also quite solid.
Laptops… I’d lean frame.work if you know your way around a Linux installer. That said, there are rumors that system76 is working on a custom laptop chassis (still, framework is hard to beat for modularity).
Edit: while not specifically QC related… I suspect the things that aren’t really custom built for them might not get the same level of care/might be more on their supplier depending on the issue.
I have a Gazelle12 from 2018 and it’s chassis is dogshit, but when I did my research before purchasing I saw a lot of reviews. They all pointed out that the case was made of flimsy plastic, so I was aware ahead of time of that potential problem. The Oryx Pro was the next Model up for several hundreds more, though. Ultimately, I am happy with my laptop even if I have to disassemble it just to repair the chassis with epoxy periodically. It’s 6 years later and the specs are still more than adequate for 99% of my needs, except for my specific intel processor which isn’t supported by Win11. I consider that a feature as oppose to a problem. The software bloat and planned obsolessence through slowdowns of software on Windows based computers are things I do not miss one bit.
IIRC Framework can preinstall fedora for you since it’s officially supported. I use Fedora on an AMD Framework 13 and its been very smooth. Even the fingerprint sensor works.
Also have their keyboard and its amazing. I’ll be doing the same, System76 Desktop and Framework Laptop for my next upgrades.
I build my own desktops, but they do sell their case individually. I’ll definitely be considering that for my next upgrade.
After all the fud and opposition they’ve pushed against it over the years.
what did they do?? i havent heard of this before damn
They did PR campaigns against Linux and OpenOffice for quite some time – until cloud computing took off and it turned out they could earn more money by supporting Linux than by fighting it.
In fact, Microsoft weren’t happy about FOSS in general. I can still remember when they tried to make “shared source” a thing: They made their own ersatz OSI with its own set of licenses, some of which didn’t grant proper reuse rights – like only allowing you to use the source code to write Windows applications.
Explorer has had so many dependencies attached to it that if even one of them sneezes, the entire desktop environment crashes and has to restart.
Actually insane when you think about it. Why the hell is a file explorer the root process of the desktop???
I’ve only ever forced stopped thunar once and it was because I was messing with some thumbnail settings. Naturally the rest of my system worked as normal, as well as the other thunar windows open lol.
Judging by the comments in this thread this will be the one defining mistake that kills Microsoft.
Nah, Lemmy is not really representative of the wider Windows userbase. The willingness to switch away from Windows is definitely going to be far higher in those who were willing to switch away from Reddit.
It will, however, add more users to the critical mass that has previously prevented Linux from being mainstream. Already we are seeing more and more software adoption. The average Facebook/word processor user can use Linux with no issues. And the average gamer can use Linux with minimal problems as well. Hell, the dominant PC gaming handheld runs Linux, not Windows. That itself is damning.
This was not the case 10 years ago, and it is clear what path is being forged.
The freaking out over an optional feature that you need specific hardware for anyway is unreal.
If Fedora had announced this as a feature you’d have wanked yourselves into a coma.
Eh? What’s this bold assumption that people would like this “feature” if fedora introduced it?
If it’s an explorer.exe dependency, it’s not an optional feature.
I’ve seen Linux users scream over basic transparently implemented opt-in telemetry. Something like this would absolutely not go over well were it implemented in a popular distro.
Recall doesn’t send your data anywhere though. It’s all local.
Telemetry is actually worse than this.
Trust us bro. We won’t send it anywhere. 🤞
Didnt they try this same shit with IE decades ago until they were forced to decouple it from explorer?
Yep
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/United_States_v._Microsoft_Corp.
A number of videotapes were submitted as evidence by Microsoft during the trial, including one that demonstrated that removing Internet Explorer from Microsoft Windows caused slowdowns and malfunctions in Windows. In the videotaped demonstration of what then-Microsoft vice president Jim Allchin stated to be a seamless segment filmed on one PC, the government noticed that some icons mysteriously disappeared and reappeared on the PC’s desktop, suggesting that the effects might have been falsified.[13] Allchin admitted that the blame for the tape problems lay with some of his staff. “They ended up filming it—grabbing the wrong screen shot”, he said of the incident. Later, Allchin re-ran the demonstration and provided a new videotape, but in so doing Microsoft dropped the claim that Windows is slowed down when IE is removed. Mark Murray, a Microsoft spokesperson, berated the government attorneys for “nitpicking on issues like video production”.[14]
Microsoft later submitted a second inaccurate videotape into evidence. The issue was how easy or difficult it was for America Online users to download and install Netscape Navigator onto a Windows PC. Microsoft’s videotape showed the process as being quick and easy, resulting in the Netscape icon appearing on the user’s desktop. The government produced its own videotape of the same process, revealing that Microsoft’s videotape had conveniently removed a long and complex part of the procedure and that the Netscape icon was not placed on the desktop, requiring a user to search for it. Brad Chase, a Microsoft vice president, verified the government’s tape and conceded that Microsoft’s own tape was falsified.[15]
I won’t upgrade past 10 anyways and if I can’t run 10, back to Linux I go.
You’ve got until late 2025 before 10 stops receiving security updates. I would not stay long after that.
I will be SO glad when my Windows 10 stops getting forced updates.
Well, yes, but no
But yes, Im pretty sure my little server I use explicitly for jellyfin will be fine
But yes, Im pretty sure my little server I use explicitly for jellyfin will be fine
I’m not sure why you wouldn’t use Linux for that. You can make some arguments against Linux on the desktop (although I don’t agree) but Linux as a server has been clearly superior for a long time.
Why would I use Linux for something that doesn’t require it?
Because it will run jellyfin, with fewer system resources, and still get security updates (that you can configure to auto install at the correct time) for … free.
You also won’t at some point find yourself running such an old version of Windows that jellyfin no longer updates unless you buy the latest version of Windows.
You can just go download Ubuntu desktop LTS and do everything by just opening a terminal, plopping that one liner, and letting it run: https://jellyfin.org/docs/general/installation/linux/#repository-automatic
I’ll flip the script and ask “why in the world would you use Windows for something that doesn’t require it?”
For years… well pretty much since I had a PC, I had a Windows partition. Why? Well because I (sadly) paid for the damn thing (damn OEM deals). Plus, I admit, sometimes they were things that only ran on Windows.
For few years now though, everything, literally, from the latest tech gadget to playing games to VR, works on Linux.
Few weeks ago I deleted the Windows partition. I didn’t have to. I didn’t boot on it for months. It didn’t affect me.
Still, I now feel … safer, more relaxed, coherent.
When I see shit like that, I feel even better!
Sadly Windows is still required for a lot of cad softwares.
Put it in a shame box (VM). This is how I run my specialty software.
vMs work well too though.
VM is still windows tho, just one layer deeper.
BricsCAD has a native Linux client
I havent found anything I can’t do with freecad and blender.
Freecad is OK but it wouldn’t even be considered in a commercial setting like I’m working in. I work with Catia, Solidworks and Polyworks. None on those run on Linux.
Yea about a year ago I switched entirely over to Linux. I am a system engineer so I have to deal with windows at work all the time but on my computer, I feel calm. Like I don’t have to worry about my operating system. Windows is getting in the way more than it’s helping 99% of the time now.
Even Windows exes work on Linux now. It took me some time and learning but I got Wine to work with some program from my walkie talkie’s manufacturer and it involves serial programming over USB.
Indeed but I very rarely, if ever need it except for some games. Usually there are FLOSS equivalent of most software. They are sometimes worst but often just as good and, obviously, they can be modified. So Wine and Proton are amazing but hopefully needed less and less.
VR works on Linux? Thru Steamvr?
Yes, I even play VR Windows games on Linux., the latest one released just weeks ago being Subside.
I’m using a Valve Index but with ALVR even standalone HMDs, e.g. (sadly from Meta) the cheap Quests line. You can find a lot more details on https://lvra.gitlab.io
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It was mostly working 2 years ago when I tried it last. I just had some weird frame dropping issues at the time that I can only imagine were fixed by now. This post is making me want to try VR again on my linux install
Depends on the headset, they don’t all work on Linux unfortunately.
The best windows debloater is delete system32 and install Linux,.
That’s my situation, except I haven’t deleted my partition yet, mostly because it sits on a separate physical disk. Maybe one day…
I have windows on another physical disk and I plan to delete my windows partition in 2025 and start a software raid 0 configuration, sadly linux is not yet ready.
