- cross-posted to:
- news@lemmy.world
- cross-posted to:
- news@lemmy.world
The narrative that OpenAI, Microsoft, and freshly minted White House “AI czar” David Sacks are now pushing to explain why DeepSeek was able to create a large language model that outpaces OpenAI’s while spending orders of magnitude less money and using older chips is that DeepSeek used OpenAI’s data unfairly and without compensation. Sound familiar?
Both Bloomberg and the Financial Times are reporting that Microsoft and OpenAI have been probing whether DeepSeek improperly trained the R1 model that is taking the AI world by storm on the outputs of OpenAI models.
It is, as many have already pointed out, incredibly ironic that OpenAI, a company that has been obtaining large amounts of data from all of humankind largely in an “unauthorized manner,” and, in some cases, in violation of the terms of service of those from whom they have been taking from, is now complaining about the very practices by which it has built its company.
OpenAI is currently being sued by the New York Times for training on its articles, and its argument is that this is perfectly fine under copyright law fair use protections.
“Training AI models using publicly available internet materials is fair use, as supported by long-standing and widely accepted precedents. We view this principle as fair to creators, necessary for innovators, and critical for US competitiveness,” OpenAI wrote in a blog post. In its motion to dismiss in court, OpenAI wrote “it has long been clear that the non-consumptive use of copyrighted material (like large language model training) is protected by fair use.”
OpenAI argues that it is legal for the company to train on whatever it wants for whatever reason it wants, then it stands to reason that it doesn’t have much of a leg to stand on when competitors use common strategies used in the world of machine learning to make their own models.
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The battle of the plagiarism machines has begun
The new innovate and the old litigate.
Corporate media take note. This is how you do reality-based reporting. None of the both-sides bullshit trying to justify or make excuses, just laughing in the face of absurd hypocrisy. This is a well-respected journalist confronting a truth we can all plainly see. See? The truth doesn’t need to be boring or bland or “balanced” by disingenuous attempts to see the other side.
I will explain what this means in a moment, but first: Hahahahahahahahahahahahahahahaha hahahhahahahahahahahahahahaha. It is, as many have already pointed out, incredibly ironic that OpenAI, a company that has been obtaining large amounts of data from all of humankind largely in an “unauthorized manner,” and, in some cases, in violation of the terms of service of those from whom they have been taking from, is now complaining about the very practices by which it has built its company.
Good that 404 are unafraid of tackling issues, but tbh i find the “hahaha” unprofessional and dispense with the informal tone in news.
It’s just… So deserved, you know? Sometimes you can’t but laugh in the face of such karma and fucking irony.
I definitely understand that reaction. It does give off a whiff of unprofessionalism, but their reporting is so consistently solid that I’m willing to give them the space to be a little more human than other journalists. If it ever got in the way of their actual journalism I’d say they should quit it, but that hasn’t happened so far.
Regardless of how OpenAI procured their data, I’m absolutely shocked that a company from China would obtain data unauthorized from a company in another country.
Yas 🐸
Big mad
Thank you China.
No for real - it’s either EU or frigging china that helps us with these oligarch overlordsEU is in best way to become a group of dictators having billionaires in their asses as well…
Yes get f*ed you creedy bastards.
I feel like I didn’t appreciate this movie enough when I first watched it but it only gets better as I get older
“Now” is always a good time to rewatch it & get more out of it!
It’s a true comedy that still holds up. I honestly thought for years that Mel Brooks had something to do with it, but he didn’t. It’s so well crafted that there are many layers to it that you can’t even grasp when watching as a child. Seeing it as an adult just open your eyes to how amazingly well done it was.
I could do without the whole Billy Crystalizing of large portions of it though.
I always thought Rob Reiner had a similar sense of humor to Mel Brooks. And I liked Billy Crystal in it, it kept that section of the movie from feeling too heavy, though I get it’s not everyone’s thing.
For anyone who hasn’t read it, the book is fantastic as well, and helped me appreciate the movie even more (it’s probably one of the best film adaptations of a book ever, IMO). The humor and wit of William Goldman was captured expertly in the movie.
I didn’t realize it was a book. Guess I’ll be searching that out.
Rob Reiner’s dad Carl was best friends with Mel Brooks for almost all of Carl’s adult life.
https://www.vanityfair.com/hollywood/2020/06/carl-reiner-mel-brooks-friendship
Tamaleeeeeeeeesssssss
hot hot hot hot tamaleeeeeeeees
👏👏👏👏👏
It is effing hilarious. First, OpenAI & friends steal creative works to “train” their LLMs. Then they are insanely hyped for what amounts to glorified statistics, get “valued” at insane amounts while burning money faster than a Californian forest fire. Then, a competitor appears that has the same evil energy but slightly better statistics… bam. A trillion of “value” just evaporates as if it never existed.
And then suddenly people are complaining that DeepSuck is “not privacy friendly” and stealing from OpenAI. Hahaha. Fuck this timeline.You can also just run deepseek locally if you are really concerned about privacy. I did it on my 4070ti with the 14b distillation last night. There’s a reddit thread floating around that described how to do with with ollama and a chatbot program.
And how does that help with the privacy?
If you’re running it on your own system it isn’t connected to their server or sharing any data. You download the model and run it on your own hardware.
From the thread I was reading people tracked packets outgoing and it seemed to just be coming from the chatbot program as analytics, not anything going to deepseek.
How do you know it isn’t communicating with their servers? Obviously it needs internet connection to work, so what’s stopping it from sending your data?
Why do you think it needs an Internet connection? Why are you saying ‘obviously’
How else does it figure out what to say if it doesn’t have the access to the internet? Genuine question, I don’t imagine you’re dowloading the entire dataset with the model.
I’ll just say, it’s ok to not know, but saying ‘obviously’ when you in fact have no clue is a bad look. I think it’s a good moment to reflect on how over confident we can be on the internet, especially about incredibly complex topics that cross into multiple disciplines and touch multiple fields.
To answer your question. The model is in fact run entirely locally. But the model doesn’t have all of the data. The model is the output of the processed training data, kind of like how a math expression 1 + 2 has more data than its output ‘3’ the resulting model is orders of magnitude smaller.
The model consists of a bunch of variables, like knobs on panel, and the training process is turning the knobs, the knobs themselves are not that big, but they require a lot of information to know where to be turned too.
Not having access to the dataset is ok from a privacy standpoint, even if you don’t know how the data was used or where it was obtained from, the important aspect here is that your prompts are not being transmitted anywhere, because the model is being used locally.
In short using the model and training the model are very different tasks.
Edit: additionally, it’s actually very very easy to know if a piece of software running on hardware you own, is contacting specific servers. The packet has to leave your computer and your router has to tell it to go somewhere, you can just watch it. I advise you check out a piece of software called Wireshark.
To add a tiny bit to what was already explained by Takumidesh: you do actually download quite a bit of data to run it locally. The “smaller” 14b model I used was a 9GB download. The 32b one is 20GB and being all “text”, that’s a lot of information.
That is true, and running locally is better in that respect. My point was more that privacy was hardly ever an issue until suddenly now.
Absolutely! I was just expanding on what you said for others who come across the thread :)
Wasn’t zuck the cuck saying “privacy is dead” a few years ago 🙄
I’m an AI/comp-sci novice, so forgive me if this is a dumb question, but does running the program locally allow you to better control the information that it trains on? I’m a college chemistry instructor that has to write lots of curriculum, assingments and lab protocols; if I ran deepseeks locally and fed it all my chemistry textbooks and previous syllabi and assignments, would I get better results when asking it to write a lab procedure? And could I then train it to cite specific sources when it does so?
I’m not all that knowledgeable either lol it is my understanding though that what you download, the “model,” is the results of their training. You would need some other way to train it. I’m not sure how you would go about doing that though. The model is essentially the “product” that is created from the training.
but does running the program locally allow you to better control the information that it trains on?
in a sense: if you don’t let it connect to the internet, it won’t be able to take your data to the creators
I hear tulip bulbs are a good investment…
How much for two thousands?
Tree fiddy 🦕
Nah bitcoin is the future
Capitalism basics, competition of exploitation
You know what else isn’t privacy friendly? Like all of social media.
It never did exist. This is the problem with the stock market.
the Chinese realised OpenAI forgot to open source their model and methodology so they just open sourced it for them 😂
CopenAI
explain why DeepSeek was able to create
Surely they also received tons of plutonium donations from Iran!
/s
