The former president has publicly waffled on the Israel-Gaza war. But he told wealthy donors he supports Israel’s right to continue “its war on terror.”
I suspect a lot of those people are arguing in bad faith and are actually spreading misinformation. That they never intended on voting for Biden, or always intended on voting for Trump and trying to make it seem like Biden is losing his base.
IRL, most people I know, while not happy with Biden’s response acknowledge that Trump’s view is much much worse.
The only difference between them is language. Both have no problem with slaughtering women and children and we are seeing it now. Biden doesn’t care and is supplying the weapons, just like he didn’t care when Lebanon was invaded.
Begin said Biden “rose and delivered a very impassioned speech” defending the invasion. Begin said he was shocked at how passionately Biden supported Israel’s invasion when Biden “said he would go even further than Israel, adding that he’d forcefully fend off anyone who sought to invade his country, even if that meant killing women or children.” Begin said, “I disassociated myself from these remarks,” adding: “I said to him: No, sir; attention must be paid. According to our values, it is forbidden to hurt women and children, even in war. Sometimes there are casualties among the civilian population as well. But it is forbidden to aspire to this. This is a yardstick of human civilization, not to hurt civilians.” The comments were striking from Begin, who had been notorious as a leader of the Irgun, a militant group that carried out some of the worst acts of ethnic cleansing accompanying the creation of the state of Israel, including the 1948 Deir Yassin massacre.
Psh, I’m voting for him. I’m doing a lot of other stuff to improve society in ways I think are important, but when it comes to my presidential vote, Biden is the lesser evil in a voting system that requires I take that into consideration.
Well yeah, I’m not just sitting here complaining to the internet either. I just don’t think the democrats are ever going to turn around and stop chasing the republicans if we blindly vote for them. If they let the republicans go further and further to the right without chasing them then the republican party dies as another party replaces them. If the democrats go further and further right leaving the left unserved then the same thing will happen to them. I happen to believe that we’ve reached that point. The democrats have been chasing the republicans since Reagan.
I think this is what people call accelerationism, meaning you want to crash the plane so it can be rebuilt.
I get it… It’s very frustrating to have to choose a candidate you’re not excited for, or worse. I’d ask you if you have any loved ones who require healthcare, or anyone who’s LGBT, or someone non white. They’re the people who are most at risk with the hate mongering that’s going on with that guy’s base.
No, it’s not accelerationist to just withhold your vote. Accelerationists are going to do things to bring about the anarchy state they think we need to rebuild properly. So stuff like attacking the power grid or attempting to start a race war (for white supremacist accelerationists). Not voting for someone and working to create a new political party is how the system is designed to be used.
I think they’ve started to turn around in the last decade or so, but not fast enough for my liking. They definitely were heading to the right for a good long while before that though, especially on economic issues.
Biden’s shut down of the unions; sign off on immigration policies that are harsher than Trump’s; protectionist gift to the donor class wrapped in climate change; and stance on Gaza and the protestors convinces me they aren’t. They talked a good game in 2020 but showed they understand how to play the game pretty much right away. They restored some rational stuff for COVID but other than that they ran to the right right away.
As long as you understand that not voting for Biden is 100% a vote for Trump (whether you cast a ballot or not) and you’re OK with that, then more power to you.
But I would ask, what do you think you’re achieving by not voting for him? If you voted for him in 2020 then you must hold personal ideals that at least semi-align with his, and you have to know that Trump’s are a complete 180 from them.
I’d also like to ask (since you imply you haven’t made up your mind) what Biden could do to change your mind?
It is more like the trolly problem, one is bad, the other is much worse. The difference is that whether you’re a fan of a football team or not it does not affect the outcome, but voting does affect the outcome albeit marginally.
The analogy isn’t about voting it’s about their vociferous defense of Biden and categorizing people as loyal or not. And the trolley problem likewise presents the problem as only having two tracks when history shows us that’s not true. There’s nearly infinite tracks. Including one where Biden comes around on Israel and wins the election.
Oh I’m arguing in bad faith because I called out your gaslighting? Conflating disillusioned voters with voters for the other team is a top tier propaganda technique meant to shore up base loyalty. And here you are executing it to a T.
Or you know, at no point did you actually engage in discussion. You used a false equivalent and rhetoric. Which is pretty much the textbook definition of a bad faith argument.
Oh I don’t think it’s a false equivalence. You seem just about the same as the average sports ball fan to me, just with your political party. And I absolutely engaged in a conversation. You just didn’t merit a longer reply when your assertion was gaslighting. So stop doing that.
I hope people realize that that Witcher quote “If I’m to choose between one evil and another… I’d rather not choose at all.” was explicitly written to be wrong, and only served as a “Before” of a maturing character arc.
I don’t even remember that, was that from the books, games, or TV show? At any rate, no obviously I had no problem voting for him in 2020. In 2020 he wasn’t supporting the mass murder of civilians in Gaza and asylees in South/Central America. In 2020 he promised to do something to stop the red states from persecuting people. In 2020 we thought he’d have a sane plan for exiting Afghanistan and would bring our interpreters and civilian support out of the country, (Instead veterans had to go back over there and get them themselves in shit Hollywood’s going to make a movie about anytime now). In 2020 we thought he’d surge funding for the military mental health crisis. And so so much more.
I suspect a lot of those people are arguing in bad faith and are actually spreading misinformation. That they never intended on voting for Biden, or always intended on voting for Trump and trying to make it seem like Biden is losing his base.
IRL, most people I know, while not happy with Biden’s response acknowledge that Trump’s view is much much worse.
The only difference between them is language. Both have no problem with slaughtering women and children and we are seeing it now. Biden doesn’t care and is supplying the weapons, just like he didn’t care when Lebanon was invaded.
In public, Joe Biden tried to claim neutrality on the Israeli military campaign. In private, he was more enthusiastic about it than the Israeli prime minister.
[emphasis mine]
I voted for Biden in 2020. At this rate I’m not voting for him in 2024.
Psh, I’m voting for him. I’m doing a lot of other stuff to improve society in ways I think are important, but when it comes to my presidential vote, Biden is the lesser evil in a voting system that requires I take that into consideration.
Well yeah, I’m not just sitting here complaining to the internet either. I just don’t think the democrats are ever going to turn around and stop chasing the republicans if we blindly vote for them. If they let the republicans go further and further to the right without chasing them then the republican party dies as another party replaces them. If the democrats go further and further right leaving the left unserved then the same thing will happen to them. I happen to believe that we’ve reached that point. The democrats have been chasing the republicans since Reagan.
I think this is what people call accelerationism, meaning you want to crash the plane so it can be rebuilt.
I get it… It’s very frustrating to have to choose a candidate you’re not excited for, or worse. I’d ask you if you have any loved ones who require healthcare, or anyone who’s LGBT, or someone non white. They’re the people who are most at risk with the hate mongering that’s going on with that guy’s base.
The answer is almost certainly no.
No, it’s not accelerationist to just withhold your vote. Accelerationists are going to do things to bring about the anarchy state they think we need to rebuild properly. So stuff like attacking the power grid or attempting to start a race war (for white supremacist accelerationists). Not voting for someone and working to create a new political party is how the system is designed to be used.
I think they’ve started to turn around in the last decade or so, but not fast enough for my liking. They definitely were heading to the right for a good long while before that though, especially on economic issues.
Biden’s shut down of the unions; sign off on immigration policies that are harsher than Trump’s; protectionist gift to the donor class wrapped in climate change; and stance on Gaza and the protestors convinces me they aren’t. They talked a good game in 2020 but showed they understand how to play the game pretty much right away. They restored some rational stuff for COVID but other than that they ran to the right right away.
As long as you understand that not voting for Biden is 100% a vote for Trump (whether you cast a ballot or not) and you’re OK with that, then more power to you.
But I would ask, what do you think you’re achieving by not voting for him? If you voted for him in 2020 then you must hold personal ideals that at least semi-align with his, and you have to know that Trump’s are a complete 180 from them.
I’d also like to ask (since you imply you haven’t made up your mind) what Biden could do to change your mind?
Not rooting for the Eagles means you’re a Patriots fan 100%.
Stop gaslighting people.
It is more like the trolly problem, one is bad, the other is much worse. The difference is that whether you’re a fan of a football team or not it does not affect the outcome, but voting does affect the outcome albeit marginally.
The analogy isn’t about voting it’s about their vociferous defense of Biden and categorizing people as loyal or not. And the trolley problem likewise presents the problem as only having two tracks when history shows us that’s not true. There’s nearly infinite tracks. Including one where Biden comes around on Israel and wins the election.
You’re a moron. Thanks for fucking over the Country.
Sure buddy.
Loser.
Ahh I get it. So you’re 100% the person I was talking about in my first post.
Oh I’m arguing in bad faith because I called out your gaslighting? Conflating disillusioned voters with voters for the other team is a top tier propaganda technique meant to shore up base loyalty. And here you are executing it to a T.
How is it gaslighting? Gaslighting isn’t simply making (unfounded) accusations.
They’re trying to convince people they are something they are not. In this case, Trump supporters.
Or you know, at no point did you actually engage in discussion. You used a false equivalent and rhetoric. Which is pretty much the textbook definition of a bad faith argument.
Oh I don’t think it’s a false equivalence. You seem just about the same as the average sports ball fan to me, just with your political party. And I absolutely engaged in a conversation. You just didn’t merit a longer reply when your assertion was gaslighting. So stop doing that.
Username checks out.
I never promised pretty.
I hope people realize that that Witcher quote “If I’m to choose between one evil and another… I’d rather not choose at all.” was explicitly written to be wrong, and only served as a “Before” of a maturing character arc.
I don’t even remember that, was that from the books, games, or TV show? At any rate, no obviously I had no problem voting for him in 2020. In 2020 he wasn’t supporting the mass murder of civilians in Gaza and asylees in South/Central America. In 2020 he promised to do something to stop the red states from persecuting people. In 2020 we thought he’d have a sane plan for exiting Afghanistan and would bring our interpreters and civilian support out of the country, (Instead veterans had to go back over there and get them themselves in shit Hollywood’s going to make a movie about anytime now). In 2020 we thought he’d surge funding for the military mental health crisis. And so so much more.