Also it’s pretty fucked up for people to talk about “curing” neurodivergence. It’s not all that different from “curing” queerness or transgenderism. Ultimately the biggest problem with autism is a misalignment with social expectations, which leads to social disadvantages. So maybe it’s really society that needs to be “cured”. Maybe we should structure society in a way that doesn’t punish people for being different.
I came here to say this, but you said it perfectly. As an autistic person, I don’t want to be “cured”… I like the way I am and I tend to like other autistic people too. Most of us are genuine, to a fault, and I’ll take that over an intrinsic understanding of weird/unnecessary neuro-typical social games any day.
Your experience may be different, but acknowledge that others’ experiences are too. Some of us want the advantages and easier life that effective treatment would provide.
I understand that point, but I don’t think the comparison to deafness is exactly apropos… Hearing is an objectively useful ability for the survival of a species. Not having it is an objective disadvantage, whether they’ve built a community around it or not.
On the other hand, autism and neurodiversity has been a boon for humanity. Individual cases at the top end of the spectrum aren’t ideal, of course, but the vast majority of people on the spectrum are able to generally be productive members of a society that was not built with them in mind.
And more than that, they’ve often ended up becoming some of our most well-loved scientists, inventors, artists, etc.
Even if you don’t want to say that it’s a good thing for humanity, you cannot deny that it’s neutral at the very least.
Personally, I do not think there is a “cause” beyond just natural genetic diversity within a species. Which is healthy.
This is exactly my point though: What if people with autism weren’t disadvantaged in society? Then the idea of “curing” it would be meaningless.
I understand that you’re frustrated by the challenges you’ve dealt with in your life, and I acknowledge that I’m speaking from a place of privilege as someone that doesn’t have any disability. But personally I’d rather see a world where people don’t feel like they’re disadvantaged for not matching the status quo than a world where everyone is equal just because everyone is the same.
What if people with autism weren’t disadvantaged in society?
Okay, even if every person in the world magically didn’t find autistic behaviors offputting or subconsciously uncanny, and they were willing to be extremely accommodating, go out of their way to overcome communication issues, life would still be a chore
Sensory issues, executive function, and difficulties learning, are internal issues some of us face.
It’s a developmental disorder plain and simple, disability for many. It isn’t all rainbows and sunshine and “everyone is special in their own way”. But everyone seems to forget this because everyone wants to be positive and accommodating.
“Society needs a cure, not us” yeah, and I guess society should just tolerate inappropriate behaviors or meltdowns and tantrums too. What does that even mean?
To what extent are those behaviors something inherent to the neurological condition versus something exacerbated by the conditions that society places on those people?
There people who argue that transgenderism shouldn’t be tolerated because there’s a strong correlation between being transgender and being depressed to the point of suicide. They believe that “humoring” the “sickness” just leads to more suicide. But the reality is that transgender people aren’t generally depressed when they’re part of a supportive community rather than being alienated.
I’m not an expert in neurology, and I acknowledge this is a large degree of speculation on my part, but maybe these outcomes can be different if we collectively approach the matter with more understanding and empathy. If the tantrums truly can’t be helped, then create space for the tantrums to happen in a way that minimizes disruption to others and doesn’t elicit judgment.
As a manager I’ve been on the receiving end of a very aggressive tantrum directed at me from someone who reports to me that I suspect may be on the spectrum. He didn’t feel like I was paying enough attention to his work, and rather than bringing it up to me in a respectful and constructive way, he had an outburst one day where he scolded me in a very demeaning way, essentially accusing me of being negligent as his manager. I suspect a lot of people in my position would have escalated that to HR right away, but instead I took the time to listen to his grievances and acknowledge that I could have done some things better as his manager but also that he is accountable for communicating his needs to me in a timely and respectful manner. He acknowledged that he could’ve handled the situation better and we came up with a system that makes it easier to get what he needs from me.
In the end no one’s feelings needed to get hurt, no one’s career needed to be damaged, and no one needed to deal with HR, because I was willing to understand the outburst for what it is and not take it too personally.
Also it’s pretty fucked up for people to talk about “curing” neurodivergence. It’s not all that different from “curing” queerness or transgenderism. Ultimately the biggest problem with autism is a misalignment with social expectations, which leads to social disadvantages. So maybe it’s really society that needs to be “cured”. Maybe we should structure society in a way that doesn’t punish people for being different.
I came here to say this, but you said it perfectly. As an autistic person, I don’t want to be “cured”… I like the way I am and I tend to like other autistic people too. Most of us are genuine, to a fault, and I’ll take that over an intrinsic understanding of weird/unnecessary neuro-typical social games any day.
Speak for yourself.
Plenty of disabilities have anti-treatment culture because it gets conflated with identity.
https://www.discovermagazine.com/health/why-deaf-people-oppose-using-gene-editing-to-cure-deafness
https://blog.disabilityinfo.org/a-cure-for-down-syndrome-or-a-celebration-of-chromosomal-diversity/
Your experience may be different, but acknowledge that others’ experiences are too. Some of us want the advantages and easier life that effective treatment would provide.
I understand that point, but I don’t think the comparison to deafness is exactly apropos… Hearing is an objectively useful ability for the survival of a species. Not having it is an objective disadvantage, whether they’ve built a community around it or not.
On the other hand, autism and neurodiversity has been a boon for humanity. Individual cases at the top end of the spectrum aren’t ideal, of course, but the vast majority of people on the spectrum are able to generally be productive members of a society that was not built with them in mind.
And more than that, they’ve often ended up becoming some of our most well-loved scientists, inventors, artists, etc.
Even if you don’t want to say that it’s a good thing for humanity, you cannot deny that it’s neutral at the very least.
Personally, I do not think there is a “cause” beyond just natural genetic diversity within a species. Which is healthy.
This is exactly my point though: What if people with autism weren’t disadvantaged in society? Then the idea of “curing” it would be meaningless.
I understand that you’re frustrated by the challenges you’ve dealt with in your life, and I acknowledge that I’m speaking from a place of privilege as someone that doesn’t have any disability. But personally I’d rather see a world where people don’t feel like they’re disadvantaged for not matching the status quo than a world where everyone is equal just because everyone is the same.
Okay, even if every person in the world magically didn’t find autistic behaviors offputting or subconsciously uncanny, and they were willing to be extremely accommodating, go out of their way to overcome communication issues, life would still be a chore
Sensory issues, executive function, and difficulties learning, are internal issues some of us face.
It’s a developmental disorder plain and simple, disability for many. It isn’t all rainbows and sunshine and “everyone is special in their own way”. But everyone seems to forget this because everyone wants to be positive and accommodating.
Oh fuck off, if there was a cure i’d take it.
“Society needs a cure, not us” yeah, and I guess society should just tolerate inappropriate behaviors or meltdowns and tantrums too. What does that even mean?
To what extent are those behaviors something inherent to the neurological condition versus something exacerbated by the conditions that society places on those people?
There people who argue that transgenderism shouldn’t be tolerated because there’s a strong correlation between being transgender and being depressed to the point of suicide. They believe that “humoring” the “sickness” just leads to more suicide. But the reality is that transgender people aren’t generally depressed when they’re part of a supportive community rather than being alienated.
I’m not an expert in neurology, and I acknowledge this is a large degree of speculation on my part, but maybe these outcomes can be different if we collectively approach the matter with more understanding and empathy. If the tantrums truly can’t be helped, then create space for the tantrums to happen in a way that minimizes disruption to others and doesn’t elicit judgment.
As a manager I’ve been on the receiving end of a very aggressive tantrum directed at me from someone who reports to me that I suspect may be on the spectrum. He didn’t feel like I was paying enough attention to his work, and rather than bringing it up to me in a respectful and constructive way, he had an outburst one day where he scolded me in a very demeaning way, essentially accusing me of being negligent as his manager. I suspect a lot of people in my position would have escalated that to HR right away, but instead I took the time to listen to his grievances and acknowledge that I could have done some things better as his manager but also that he is accountable for communicating his needs to me in a timely and respectful manner. He acknowledged that he could’ve handled the situation better and we came up with a system that makes it easier to get what he needs from me.
In the end no one’s feelings needed to get hurt, no one’s career needed to be damaged, and no one needed to deal with HR, because I was willing to understand the outburst for what it is and not take it too personally.
QFT