I didn’t vote for Trump, this is not a justification for anything he is doing, this is purely me trying to find any crumb of hope in this abysmal situation.
The country was in decline for at least a decade before Trump took office. So far everything has been a slow boil and we Americans just take it imo.
Maybe Trump will make everything so awful so quickly it will force actual change. Basically we were slowly heating the water and when it turned lukewarm Trump just cranked the heat up to max, maybe the frog realizes this and jumps out.
Thought this would happen the first time, woke up to him winning again.
Shit needs to get a lot worse before it gets better apparently
Nah. Accelerationism is pure bunk with exactly zero evidence supporting it. Things getting worse just makes it harder to make them better.
Except, you know, most of human history. Can’t overthrow an evil regime if there isn’t one.
Thanks for saying it. People on here really seem to think this is the first fascist regime in history.
Did any of those countries become particularly high quality places to live after the fascist regimes fell (compared to peer countries that didn’t go through a fascist phase)?
If the answer is “no, Italy and Germany and so on are not particularly notable compared to their neighbors”, then it sounds to me like accelerationism is bunk, and what you get after fascism is more-or-less what you would have had anyway if all that suffering had been avoided.
We like to believe that every dark cloud has a silver lining, that what doesn’t kill you makes you stronger, that everything is happening according to some plan or pattern that’ll all make it work out in the end, etc, etc. Sometimes that’s true, but often times its not. Sometimes bad things happen that didn’t need to happen, for no good reason, and people get hurt and die and nothing good comes of it. That’s life. Sometimes its ugly and there’s no point to what happens.
This usually happens, yes.
After millions people have died.
Not worth it. Trump and the other right wing extremists should have been stopped years ago.
“Let the OrphanGrindingMachine cook”, he said to the crowd.
TBH it does feel like more Orphans need to be crushed before the normie gets radicalized enough for action
Starving people solve overpopulation /s
If you are looking for silver linings, just look at the positive political effect trump is having in other countries, such as Australia and Canada :)
As a Canadian, I’m relieved the conservatives didn’t win the election but I would have rather preferred the NDP win. A lot of people like myself really wanted to vote NDP but voted liberal out of fear of vote-splitting leading to a conservative win. We’ve forsaken the left wing party to stave off the right wing party.
one of the main silver linings before his 2nd term was that he was destroying the gop from within while hes ranting and riling up his base, and attacking any gop not supporting him.
But there also countries where trump inspired and popularized far-right parties
Yes but I’m trying to find positives for the OP, not negatives 🤫
We barely rejected the right wing nuts, and they could easily take the next election. While relief is warranted, we should not be smug or complacent about it, either. Lies more faster than the truth, it’s still an uphill battle for morality and decency.
You should read some US history if you think that is going to happen.
At best there will be slight improvement for a couple decades while nobody in the administration or who helped to destroy the government suffers any consequences and they just do it all over again.
I don’t think this will happen
this is purely me trying to find any crumb of hope in this abysmal situation
Yes, I was pointing out why you shouldn’t try to convince yourself to think that there is any possible chance of a positive coming out of this.
Have you read U.S. history?
Despite the land of freedom hype, we started as a country where only land owning white men could vote, and slavery was law. As flawed as things are now (and there will always be a need to improve and fight injustice) slavery has been abolished, all men and women can vote, child labor abolished, 40 hour work week, gay marriage legal.
We should be realistic and honest about the bad things happening right now. But if we don’t believe it’s possible for things to get better (doomerism) then it’s much less likely they will, and believing that ignores the actual historical evidence.
As flawed as things are now (and there will always be a need to improve and fight injustice) slavery has been abolished,
Except in prisons
all men and women can vote,
Except for the ones who can’t because of felonies that are arbitrarily decided to be disqualifying.
child labor abolished,
Except for family businesses, and if you haven’t noticed Republicans are bringing child labor back.
40 hour work week,
Except for exempt employees.
gay marriage legal.
Conservatives are working on getting this overturned just like they overturned Roe v Wade.
Yeah, we aren’t as shitty as we were 250 years ago but the gains we have made in those centuries is pretty fucking basic. We still have massive problems and Republicans and their half of the voting population are working turelessly to bring back the absolute worst things.
Yes, I have read history.
OP said “maybe something good will come out of this” and you said look at history, the best that will happen is some minor temporary improvement. I pointed out several significant long lasting advances. I don’t see where anything you said here disproves that.
As I said, yes, there are significant problems we need to address. But being negative to the point of denying reality isn’t some act of resistance, it’s capitulation. Telling people there’s no hope helps the enemy.
slavery has been abolished
[citation needed]
all men and women can vote
[citation needed]
child labor abolished
[citation needed]
40 hour work week
[citation needed]
gay marriage legal
[citation needed]
[citation needed]
[citation needed]
It’s called observing reality. For example, gay marriage is illegal in several states, slavery only got legalized to ~40 hrs a week, incarcerated men and women are deprived the right to vote, etc.
Come on it’s not that hard.
You seem to have missed the humorous intent of my comment
Nothing in the text indicated humor.
I mean, gay marriage is legal at least for now
Are you sure? Legal means it has to be legal everywhere, otherwise you can just get the same treatment eg.: doctors get for providing abortion. Nowadays, that means you can get ICEd by an out-of-state order.
slavery has been abolished
Took a civil war
all men and women can vote
Not all and women voting took violent riots to come to be
child labor abolished
40 hour work week
People died in gun battles against the government and hired guns to get these
gay marriage legal
It’s legal but easy to take away, and also took violent riots
I’ll quote my reply to the other person:
OP said “maybe something good will come out of this” and you said look at history, the best that will happen is some minor temporary improvement. I pointed out several significant long lasting advances. I don’t see where anything you said here disproves that.
As I said, yes, there are significant problems we need to address. But being negative to the point of denying reality isn’t some act of resistance, it’s capitulation. Telling people there’s no hope helps the enemy.
Long-winded product of a quick brainstorm session incoming…
So, Americans will have two options:
-
Wait it out passively. Corporate infrastructure/services will become more prevalent and take the place of governmental agencies as they default due to debt and mismanagement (a position they’ve been put in through the decades thanks to defunding, with Elon’s DOGE being the latest of villains in this story). Get ready for corporate cities, and conglomerates being the de facto rulers of America. As governmental power wanes and after the eventual American balkanization, you’ll be part of the Amazon Republic of Arizona or whatever. Idk what happens after that.
-
Somehow, Americans fight both corporate and governmental power, through the creation of alternative supply chains, alternative (labour based, for instance) currency and become more self sufficient. Americans are heavily armed as well and, while incapable of fighting an army of drones, it should be enough of a deterrent (especially if the power structure collapses and infighting amongst oligarchs happens but these post American cooperative societies stand by each other). Communities with immigrants that still have connections to the civilized world might help bring foreign aid and intervention. However, this requires trust, empathy, prosociality, generosity and critical thought. You and I both know Americans are famous for lacking in all of those attributes so I don’t really see how they’ll get it together quickly (and no, American Christian dogma, which is even more cursed and against the actual teachings of Jesus than the Catholic dogma, cannot offer a solution).
God willing something will happen to snap Americans out of their white ethnonationalist, imperialistic fantasies and into love for humanity, and God does do miracles, but I’m not very optimistic. It might just be the new Sodom and Gomorrah, NGL.
Finally, there’s a reason the Western mind can only picture Mad Max when the government collapses: even they know they’re completely amoral and uncivilised, the only force holding society together is fear of legal repercussions/getting killed by the cops. By themselves, for the sake of being good and prosocial and to have some self respect, they won’t do shit.
I can tell you that what happens after option 1 is Snow Crash.
-
People forgot what Trump was like 4 years ago and re elected him. So no, it will not facilitate any change.
I like how people think destroying everything will somehow result in a future where people are empathetic.
Phoenix?
It’s more about the less people have to lose the more they are willing to risk
When the people end up with nothing left to lose, things tend to get exceptionally shitty for a few generations. Then it’s a die toss to figure out if what comes after that is any better or not.
It’s not really a die toss because the people with power maintain that power and have the most influence in what comes out of that shit-pool. It needs a functional shakeup at the deepest level, and not superficial changes at the surface level to make an effective difference. Otherwise things will just continue to repeat until we destroy ourselves. The problem is that kind of shakeup requires that people remain vigilant and involved for their entire lives, which isn’t going to happen if their only concern is that their own lives are getting disrupted and they want it to go back to par, which is our current standoff.
Agreed; that jackass has pushed me firmly into the “let leopards eat all their faces” camp as opposed to giving a shit WHY they’re so fuckin stupid anymore.
That’s what I thought COVID would do and here we are
The problem is that there are 70+ million “frogs” in this country who are being told that being boiled alive is good for them - and they believe it without question, and will fight anyone that says otherwise.
On the bright side, that saying is not a reflection of reality. A real frog will jump out of the pot.
That is what I’m assuming too.
Would be nice if it wouldn’t be causing so much death, destruction and suffering before you got there
Ha!
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Ha.
No.
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I dunno. My favorite punk band just canceled their American tour…
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See, things are already better for that punk band.
The masses are poor and uneducated. Under Trump they will get further uneducated, allowing this to happen more often.
poor and uneducated, and also extremely low information, and prone to conspiracies. also some college educated fall into the latter of low information people.
Country was in decline since at least the 1970s.
