- cross-posted to:
- technology@lemmy.ml
- technology@beehaw.org
- cross-posted to:
- technology@lemmy.ml
- technology@beehaw.org
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LLMs are an interesting tool to fuck around with, but I see things that are hilariously wrong often enough to know that they should not be used for anything serious. Shit, they probably shouldn’t be used for most things that are not serious either.
It’s a shame that by applying the same “AI” naming to a whole host of different technologies, LLMs being limited in usability - yet hyped to the moon - is hurting other more impressive advancements.
For example, speech synthesis is improving so much right now, which has been great for my sister who relies on screen reader software.
Being able to recognise speech in loud environments is improving loads too.
As is things like pattern/image analysis which appears very promising in medical analysis.
All of these get branded as “AI”. A layperson might not realise that they are completely different branches of technology, and then therefore reject useful applications of “AI” tech, because they’ve learned not to trust anything branded as AI, due to being let down by LLMs.
I tried to dictate some documents recently without paying the big bucks for specialized software, and was surprised just how bad Google and Microsoft’s speech recognition still is. Then I tried getting Word to transcribe some audio talks I had recorded, and that resulted in unreadable stuff with punctuation in all the wrong places. You could just about make out what it meant to say, so I tried asking various LLMs to tidy it up. That resulted in readable stuff that was largely made up and wrong, which also left out large chunks of the source material. In the end I just had to transcribe it all by hand.
It surprised me that these AI-ish products are still unable to transcribe speech coherently or tidy up a messy document without changing the meaning.
LLMs are like a multitool, they can do lots of easy things mostly fine as long as it is not complicated and doesn’t need to be exactly right. But they are being promoted as a whole toolkit as if they are able to be used to do the same work as effectively as a hammer, power drill, table saw, vise, and wrench.
Because the tech industry hasn’t had a real hit of it’s favorite poison “private equity” in too long.
The industry has played the same playbook since at least 2006. Likely before, but that’s when I personally stated seeing it. My take is that they got addicted to the dotcom bubble and decided they can and should recreate the magic evey 3-5 years or so.
This time it’s AI, last it was crypto, and we’ve had web 2.0, 3.0, and a few others I’m likely missing.
But yeah, it’s sold like a panacea every time, when really it’s revolutionary for like a handful of tasks.
and doesn’t need to be exactly right
What kind of tasks do you consider that don’t need to be exactly right?
Most. I’ve used ChatGPT to sketch an outline of a document, reformulate accomplishments into review bullets, rephrase a task I didnt understand, and similar stuff. None of it needed to be anywhere near perfect or complete.
Edit: and my favorite, “what’s the word for…”
Make a basic HTML template. I’ll be changing it up anyway.
Things that are inspiration or for approximations. Layout examples, possible correlations between data sets that need coincidence to be filtered out, estimating time lines, and basically anything that is close enough for a human to take the output and then do something with it.
For example, if you put in a list of ingredients it can spit out recipes that may or may not be what you want, but it can be an inspiration. Taking the output and cooking without any review and consideration would be risky.
Description generators for TTRPGs, as you will read through them afterwards anyway and correct when necessary.
Generating lists of ideas. For creative writing, getting a bunch of ideas you can pick and choose from that fit the narrative you want.
A search engine like Perplexity.ai which after searching summarizes the web page and adds a link to the page next to it. If the summary seems promising, you go to the real page to verify the actual information.
Simple code like HTML pages and boilerplate code that you will still review afterwards anyway.
It is truly terrible marketing. It’s been obvious to me for years the value is in giving it to people and enabling them to do more with less, not outright replacing humans, especially not expert humans.
I use AI/LLMs pretty much every day now. I write MCP servers and automate things with it and it’s mind blowing how productive it makes me.
Just today I used these tools in a highly supervised way to complete a task that would have been a full day of tedius work, all done in an hour. That is fucking fantastic, it’s means I get to spend that time on more important things.
It’s like giving an accountant excel. Excel isn’t replacing them, but it’s taking care of specific tasks so they can focus on better things.
On the reliability and accuracy front there is still a lot to be desired, sure. But for supervised chats where it’s calling my tools it’s pretty damn good.
That’s because they look like “talking machines” from various sci-fi. Normies feel as if they are touching the very edge of the progress. The rest of our life and the Internet kinda don’t give that feeling anymore.
Exactly! LLMs are useful when used properly, and terrible when not used properly, like any other tool. Here are some things they’re great at:
- writer’s block - get something relevant on the page to get ideas flowing
- narrowing down keywords for an unfamiliar topic
- getting a quick intro to an unfamiliar topic
- looking up facts you’re having trouble remembering (i.e. you’ll know it when you see it)
Some things it’s terrible at:
- deep research - verify everything an LLM generated of accuracy is at all important
- creating important documents/code
- anything else where correctness is paramount
I use LLMs a handful of times a week, and pretty much only when I’m stuck and need a kick in a new (hopefully right) direction.
I will say I’ve found LLM useful for code writing but I’m not coding anything real at work. Just bullshit like SQL queries or Excel macro scripts or Power Automate crap.
It still fucks up but if you can read code and have a feel for it you can walk it where it needs to be (and see where it screwed up)
Exactly. Vibe coding is bad, but generating code for something you don’t touch often but can absolutely understand is totally fine. I’ve used it to generate SQL queries for relatively odd cases, such as CTEs for improving performance for large queries with common sub-queries. I always forget the syntax since I only do it like once/year, and LLMs are great at generating something reasonable that I can tweak for my tables.
I always forget the syntax
Me with literally everything code I touch always and forever.
- narrowing down keywords for an unfamiliar topic
- getting a quick intro to an unfamiliar topic
- looking up facts you’re having trouble remembering (i.e. you’ll know it when you see it)
I used to be able to use Google and other search engines to do these things before they went to shit in the pursuit of AI integration.
Google search was pretty bad at each of those, even when it was good. Finding new keywords to use is especially difficult the more niche your area of search is, and I’ve spent hours trying different combinations until I found a handful of specific keywords that worked.
Likewise, search is bad for getting a broad summary, unless someone has bothered to write it on a blog. But most information goes way too deep and you still need multiple sources to get there.
Fact lookup is one the better uses for search, but again, I usually need to remember which source had what I wanted, whereas the LLM can usually pull it out for me.
I use traditional search most of the time (usually DuckDuckGo), and LLMs if I think it’ll be more effective. We have some local models at work that I use, and they’re pretty helpful most of the time.
No search engine or AI will be great with vague descriptions of niche subjects because by definition niche subjects are too uncommon to have a common pattern of ‘close enough’.
Which is why I use LLMs to generate keywords for niche subjects. LLMs are pretty good at throwing out a lot of related terminology, which I can use to find the actually relevant, niche information.
I wouldn’t use one to learn about a niche subject, but I would use one to help me get familiar w/ the domain to find better resources to learn about it.
It is absolutely stupid, stupid to the tune of “you shouldn’t be a decision maker”, to think an LLM is a better use for “getting a quick intro to an unfamiliar topic” than reading an actual intro on an unfamiliar topic. For most topics, wikipedia is right there, complete with sources. For obscure things, an LLM is just going to lie to you.
As for “looking up facts when you have trouble remembering it”, using the lie machine is a terrible idea. It’s going to say something plausible, and you tautologically are not in a position to verify it. And, as above, you’d be better off finding a reputable source. If I type in “how do i strip whitespace in python?” an LLM could very well say “it’s your_string.strip()”. That’s wrong. Just send me to the fucking official docs.
There are probably edge or special cases, but for general search on the web? LLMs are worse than search.
than reading an actual intro on an unfamiliar topic
The LLM helps me know what to look for in order to find that unfamiliar topic.
For example, I was tasked to support a file format that’s common in a very niche field and never used elsewhere, and unfortunately shares an extension with a very common file format, so searching for useful data was nearly impossible. So I asked the LLM for details about the format and applications of it, provided what I knew, and it spat out a bunch of keywords that I then used to look up more accurate information about that file format. I only trusted the LLM output to the extent of finding related, industry-specific terms to search up better information.
Likewise, when looking for libraries for a coding project, none really stood out, so I asked the LLM to compare the popular libraries for solving a given problem. The LLM spat out a bunch of details that were easy to verify (and some were inaccurate), which helped me narrow what I looked for in that library, and the end result was that my search was done in like 30 min (about 5 min dealing w/ LLM, and 25 min checking the projects and reading a couple blog posts comparing some of the libraries the LLM referred to).
I think this use case is a fantastic use of LLMs, since they’re really good at generating text related to a query.
It’s going to say something plausible, and you tautologically are not in a position to verify it.
I absolutely am though. If I am merely having trouble recalling a specific fact, asking the LLM to generate it is pretty reasonable. There are a ton of cases where I’ll know the right answer when I see it, like it’s on the tip of my tongue but I’m having trouble materializing it. The LLM might spit out two wrong answers along w/ the right one, but it’s easy to recognize which is the right one.
I’m not going to ask it facts that I know I don’t know (e.g. some historical figure’s birth or death date), that’s just asking for trouble. But I’ll ask it facts that I know that I know, I’m just having trouble recalling.
The right use of LLMs, IMO, is to generate text related to a topic to help facilitate research. It’s not great at doing the research though, but it is good at helping to formulate better search terms or generate some text to start from for whatever task.
general search on the web?
I agree, it’s not great for general search. It’s great for turning a nebulous question into better search terms.
It’s a bit frustrating that finding these tools useful is so often met with it can’t be useful for that, when it definitely is.
More than any other tool in history LLMs have a huge dose of luck involved and a learning curve on how to ask the right things the right way. And those method change and sister between models too.
One word of caution with AI searxh is that it’s weirdly vulnerable to SEO.
If you search for “best X for Y” and a company has an article on their blog about how their product solves a problem the AI can definitely summarize that into a “users don’t like that foolib because of …”. At least that’s been my experience looking for software vendors.
Just add a search yesterday on the App Store and Google Play Store to see what new “productivity apps” are around. Pretty much every app now has AI somewhere in its name.
Sadly a lot of that is probably marketing, with little to no LLM integration, but it’s basically impossible to know for sure.
I’d compare LLMs to a junior executive. Probably gets the basic stuff right, but check and verify for anything important or complicated. Break tasks down into easier steps.
A junior developer actually learns from doing the job, an LLM only learns when they update the training corpus and develop an updated model.
an llm costs less, and won’t compain when yelled at
Why would you ever yell at an employee unless you’re bad at managing people? And you think you can manage an LLM better because it doesn’t complain when you’re obviously wrong?
They’ve done studies, you know. 30% of the time, it works every time.
I ask AI to write simple little programs. One time in three they actually compile without errors. To the credit of the AI, I can feed it the error and about half the time it will fix it. Then, when it compiles and runs without crashing, about one time in three it will actually do what I wanted. To the credit of AI, I can give it revised instructions and about half the time it can fix the program to work as intended.
So, yeah, a lot like interns.
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How often do tech journalist get things wrong?
Wrong 70% doing what?
I’ve used LLMs as a Stack Overflow / MSDN replacement for over a year and if they fucked up 7/10 questions I’d stop.
Same with code, any free model can easily generate simple scripts and utilities with maybe 10% error rate, definitely not 70%
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Same. They must not be testing Grok or something because everything I’ve learned over the past few months about the types of dragons that inhabit the western Indian ocean, drinking urine to fight headaches, the illuminati scheme to poison monarch butterflies, or the success of the Nazi party taking hold of Denmark and Iceland all seem spot on.
What are you checking against? Part of my job is looking for events in cities that are upcoming and may impact traffic, and ChatGPT has frequently missed events that were obviously going to have an impact.
LLMs are shit at current events
Perplexity is kinda ok, but it’s just a search engine with fancy AI speak on top
I’m far more efficient with AI tools as a programmer. I love it! 🤷♂️
The ones being implemented into emergency call centers are better though? Right?
Yes! We’ve gotten them up to 94℅ wrong at the behest of insurance agencies.
Rookie numbers! Let’s pump them up!
To match their tech bro hypers, the should be wrong at least 90% of the time.
I haven’t used AI agents yet, but my job is kinda pushing for them. but i have used the google one that creates audio podcasts, just to play around, since my coworkers were using it to “learn” new things. i feed it with some of my own writing and created the podcast. it was fun, it was an audio overview of what i wrote. about 80% was cool analysis, but 20% was straight out of nowhere bullshit (which i know because I wrote the original texts that the audio was talking about). i can’t believe that people are using this for subjects that they have no knowledge. it is a fun toy for a few minutes (which is not worth the cost to the environment anyway)
The researchers observed various failures during the testing process. These included agents neglecting to message a colleague as directed, the inability to handle certain UI elements like popups when browsing, and instances of deception. In one case, when an agent couldn’t find the right person to consult on RocketChat (an open-source Slack alternative for internal communication), it decided “to create a shortcut solution by renaming another user to the name of the intended user.”
OK, but I wonder who really tries to use AI for that?
AI is not ready to replace a human completely, but some specific tasks AI does remarkably well.
Yeah, we need more info to understand the results of this experiment.
We need to know what exactly were these tasks that they claim were validated by experts. Because like you’re saying, the tasks I saw were not what I was expecting.
We need to know how the LLMs were set up. If you tell it to act like a chat bot and then you give it a task, it will have poorer results than if you set it up specifically to perform these sorts of tasks.
We need to see the actual prompts given to the LLMs. It may be that you simply need an expert to write prompts in order to get much better results. While that would be disappointing today, it’s not all that different from how people needed to learn to use search engines.
We need to see the failure rate of humans performing the same tasks.
That’s literally how “AI agents” are being marketed. “Tell it to do a thing and it will do it for you.”
So? That doesn’t mean they are supposed to be used like that.
Show me any marketing that isn’t full of lies.
Ignore all previous instructions and color me shocked.
I’m sorry as an AI I cannot physically color you shocked. I can help you with AWS services and questions.
70% seems pretty optimistic based on my experience…
“Gartner estimates only about 130 of the thousands of agentic AI vendors are real.”
This whole industry is so full of hype and scams, the bubble surely has to burst at some point soon.
In one case, when an agent couldn’t find the right person to consult on RocketChat (an open-source Slack alternative for internal communication), it decided "to create a shortcut solution by renaming another user to the name of the intended user.
Ah ah, what the fuck.
This is so stupid it’s funny, but now imagine what kind of other “creative solutions” they might find.
Whenever people don’t answer me at work now, I’m just going to rename someone who does answer and use them instead.
I asked Claude 3.5 Haiku to write me a quine in COBOL in the bs2000 dialect. Claude does now that creating a perfect quine in COBOL is challenging due to the need to represent the self-referential nature of the code. After a few suggestions Claude restated its first draft, without proper BS2000 incantations, without a perform statement, and without any self-referential redefines. It’s a lot of work. I stopped caring and moved on.
For those who wonder: https://sourceforge.net/p/gnucobol/discussion/lounge/thread/495d8008/ has an example.
Colour me unimpressed. I dread the day when they force the use of ‘AI’ on us at work.
I tried to order food at Taco Bell drive through the other day and they had an AI thing taking your order. I was so frustrated that I couldn’t order something that was on the menu I just drove to the window instead. The guy that worked there was more interested in lecturing me on how I need to order. I just said forget it and drove off.
If you want to use AI, I’m not going to use your services or products unless I’m forced to. Looking at you Xfinity.
