This is why I believe federation should be an opt-in process rather than servers being federated by default.
Some of you may remember when Lemmy World was flooded with CSAM by other hostile instances and had to temporarily disable image uploads.
Lemmy supports both blacklist and whitelist federation, but the only large instance that uses whitelist federation as far as I know currently is Hexbear.
That would destroy the already limited content of the fedi. It’s like people hate content discovery for some reason.
It’s almost like federation is a stupid fucking idea that doesn’t work
It’s almost like it’s fundamentally broken and no one else wants to admit it
Well how do you think it should work then?
👆
What do you think towns and cities are
Stupid fucking ideas.
there are peoples who create instances for their families, who is going to manually federate with all these small instances?
Nominally, you’d need to go through some request process to request federation with other large instances. Then they’d vet your configuration before adding you.
Would be nice if they had some form of agreement where you can get accepted by one big instance, you get accepted by all. Or maybe even a standard order form and application which you can send to all major instances with the click of a button
If the FBI are on here, they’d better work harder
Maybe its their instances and those are honeypots
Maybe its their instances and those are just the way they are
Apparently it is rather easy to gather personal data as an instance owner, so it really makes you wonder.
That’s actually pretty concerning, however my mantra is that anything with bad optics just stays in my head. Nobody can gather what I won’t say!
Huh. I would have bet Lemmygrad would be up there somewehre.
Places like Lemmygrad and Hexbear are actually pretty benign. They’re just on the verge of being acceptable to people so they make a lot of noise and cause a lot of drama but in terms of the actual bad actors… well, as you can see, they don’t even rate.
Meh, I don’t really find the open mass murder fetish benign at all. I don’t care what color your fash is, it’s still abhorrent.
I guess it’s slightly better that they’re mostly honest deniers instead of “they had it coming” types.
I think. I personally find it refreshing in small doses to deal with people that actually know what the fuck they’re talking about in terms of political theory, some of the shit .world users will say is…
Upsetting, intellectually.
Of course, so is talking to a genuine Stalinist.
My experience with hexbear has been pretty fucking far from them knowing political theory, outside of one very specific niche they can kind of articulate as long as you don’t ask them to reduce any of it to fundamentals or first principles.
As far as I can tell, their one trick is quoting books they haven’t actually read, assuming nobody else has read them either. I’ve literally had this same interaction three or four times at this point, over books which don’t say the things they think they say. Like multiple people arguing that some Chomsky work supports their orthodox ML theory.
You can literally get them to argue against the works they are trying cite by quoting them. It’s amusing for a bit, but then it’s just sad.
Hexbear and Lemmygrad are different instances, but tbh at this point I’m just happy with people that can at least vaguely define liberalism and socialism, and I don’t have to see the great minds upvote “communism is right wing, AKSHUALLY, because right wing means authoritarian.”
Edit: ah wait, your comment was under one about both, I conflated it with the other chain about Lemmygrad specifically.
Agreed. While I tend to disagree with most of the viewpoints coming from lemmygrad, at least the content is posted with benign intent. The room might stink, but nobody intentionally shat on the floor.
The room might stink, but nobody intentionally shat on the floor.
I like this figure of speech a lot, stealing it 😁
I think lemmygrad isn’t that bad considering pedo.school is halfway through the list.
True, but LemmyGrad can be wild too. I met one who claimed being Homosexual is imperialistic. https://lemmy.world/post/4494303
Ah yes the urge to kiss boys and conquer territory
Isn’t that a .world user? Lemmygrad doesn’t allow homophobes as a rule. Probably why they couldn’t register on that instance.
Being gay and imperialist is a hilarious thought though lol
When you are a queen but want to be THE Queen.
Lemmygrad and Hexbear most definitely do not tolerate homophobia, though, so I don’t think that user would’ve lasted long there if they were a lemmygrad user.
I bet a large part of the Fediverse are Communist/Socialist too, or have similar ideas. Lemmy’s devs are, after all.
I mean, the whole thing is based on the idea of being free to use for everyone.
I see your Point. I see myself also as rather left. But the People over at Lemmygrad are not really left imo. They are authoritarian, for sure. But left? I don’t know. I don’t want to claim to be the sole “Incarnation of leftism” it’s just that many of my views and beliefs are the opposite of theirs.
Being vehemently against racism and fascism is left. It’s the logical extreme opposite of “a certain group of people are superior to everyone else”: “everyone is equal and their basic necessities should be provided for free”
You just seem to disagree with the folks over on grad and Lemmy devs on how that can be achieved, and maybe to what extent it should be. They believe an authority is necessary to enforce those rules, or you get corporations and billionaires steering the government to wage wars for profit from oil, materials etc. like what’s happening now.
Personally, I see being pro-China like they are on grad as much less worrying than being pro-US, the latter of which I have a feeling .world mods wouldn’t block because of their inherent western bias. Only one of the two have constantly invaded other countries for their resources, or overthrown democratically elected foreign governments to replace them with military dictatorships.
Only one of the two have constantly invaded other countries
The People of Tibet might disagree there. But this is a discussion for another Time.
I’m not pro US either, tho. I just call out evil when I see it. And that’s my Problem with Lemygrad. They seem to believe there are only two sides. I can say America does bad things and China, Russia etc. does bad things. They pick one side and argue and justify away the crimes “their” Side has done. And that’s not how we come forward. Evil is Evil is Evil. No matter who does it.
They pick one side and argue and justify away the crimes “their” Side has done
That’s a heavy oversimplification of everything on there… I see the folks on grad being mad about bad decisions by China just the same; they just heavily scrutinize negative news for bias or misinfo, as people should do for everything.
If you do scrutinize your news and sources, I think it’s only natural that you’d end up being very anti-west/imperialism, and far less anti-China, specially considering the grip western media and news have on the world. The two are just not equivalent at all.
The People of Tibet might disagree there
Here’s an example of that. The fact that China’s education system makes sure ~90% of Tibetans can speak their cultural language compared to the ~8% of North Americans that can speak theirs means they’re just not equivalent. The only countries accusing China of such a fucked up crime like cultural repression are western ones with a political/economic interest for doing so. Muslim countries and the global south side with China on this and Xinjiang.
Amazing, it only took you 2 comments to land right on genocide denial, unprovoked.
You’re a tankie, defending other tankies, and tankies aren’t communists, nor are you on the left, since you clearly aren’t in support of freedom and equality for all, never mind the rest of it, just more of the same bullshit - authoritarians co opting leftist ideas and language to grab power. Tale as old as fucking time…genocide
Jesus christ, you don’t seem to realize how much of a fucked up accusation that is to throw around. Even the US State Department, who would love to claim any and all accusations against their geopolitical rivals, says there’s no mass killings in China, probably because the US couldn’t cause one like they did in 1965 in Indonesia.
Even if it’s not intentional, these kinds of thoughtless claims downplay actual mass killings like the one Israel is perpetrating against native Palestinians right now.
far-rights co opting leftist language to grab power
Hence why it’s important to scrutinize news, sources and claims, and not throw around baseless ones.
I do think we need a democratically elected authority though, or you get corporations and billionaires steering the government to wage wars for their own selfish profit from oil, materials etc. like what’s happening now with Israel. And rising inequality as wealth gathers at the top.
Perhaps a governing system like Cuba’s, which is Socialist and has one of the most open democracies in the world. It has an unusually high percentage of women in the government compared to the rest of the world thanks to that; 53.22% now (U.S has 29.0%), and better LGBT rights than the US nowadays. Also free healthcare, and enough free high level education to provide Italy with doctors during the pandemic, despite the ongoing 60 year US embargo.
You don’t get it. I don’t compare. It is not that is worse than that. China attacked Tibet and conquered their Land. I don’t need to compare this to the US. I don’t care if Country XYZ says it was good. Evil is Evil is Evil. Pull yourself away from comparing. You don’t have to weigh Evil against each other.
EDIT:
They pick one side and argue and justify away the crimes “their” Side has done.
You are doing exactly that. You try to argue and justify the annexation of Tibet. You could easily say “Yeah, that was not okay. China invaded and occupied Tibet, this is not okay.” But instead you are trying to compare this to the US and bring up other Countries and what they think. THIS is exactly what I meant.
you are trying to compare this to the US and bring up other Countries and what they think
Shouldn’t we look at different sources and scrutinize events and claims thoroughly? You seem to be thinking you’re being objective by taking a centrist position on these but this
China invaded and occupied Tibet
is a western claim, and exactly what the US and EU wants its citizens to think by drawing a false equivalence between them and their geopolitical rival. Tibet had a popular revolutionary party whose views were in line with the rest of China that wanted China’s help overthrowing the Dalai Lama, under whom slavery and serfdom was common in the region. There absolutely were factions supporting the prior feudal rule, but chalking that up to “China invaded and occupied Tibet” is absurd and extremely misleading. Tibet is an autonomous region now.
Hell, the Tibetan uprising against the Chinese government later on was organized by the CIA, and the US is open about it and even proud of it now. Here’s a book on that written by a US district judge and a journal by a professor on Tibetan studies. It’s similar to how the US overthrew the democratically elected Mosaddegh in Iran because his policies would benefit Iran instead of the US.
The spectrum is more than left and right, I know political compass memes on Reddit got taken over by nazis but there is legitimately a whole compass. Stalin is somewhat center left, nudist hippie communes are lower left corner
There is, for better or worse, authoritarianism on the left. “You will be fed and given a place to stay and personal safety… or else!” Even in its more benign forms (ex Bolshevism) it’s kinda bad imo. When it gets extreme it gets… well… being an English speaker i’m sure you’ve heard all about it.
I think this highlights what people think when they hear “defederating” vs its actual purpose. It’s controversial when it’s between serious instances that people actually use but with wildly incompatible opinions, but there’s very few objections when it’s blocking CSAM!
Okay, yeah this was my thought as I wrote this, I won’t deny it. But to be fair, LemmyGrad does more than just to be controversial. They provoke and brigade and justify terrible Crimes against Humanity. And I might bet that some of the Stuff they say could even be illegal here in Germany.
I imagine most of the big servers have them blocked but it’s probably the individual servers that make up the majority of the numbers. If you’re self-hosting then you can just ignore instances you don’t like and be relatively confident they won’t hassle you. The other kind though, probably want to preempt them!
I’d imaging its fur and anime, not CSAM.
Fur, anime, and CSAM groups have a not so insignificant overlap of members sometimes, sadly.
Judging from some of the other comments in this thread I’m not so sure
Makes me kinda wish that when defederating you could select a one word label for why. Like a fixed list with several options like pedo, spam, harassment, abandoned, etc and a default of other. Make it a bit easier with a big list like this to say, oh 1000 of these 1400 all selected “racism” when defederating so it’s probably very racist and I should also defederate. But if it’s a lot of “other” or inconsistent reasons maybe I should spend a bit of time digging.
You’re looking for this: https://gui.fediseer.com/instances/censured. Us instance admin can also endorse other instances.
What does “altfedi” mean? And what content is illegal in Germany and Czechia?
As an instance owner, thank you. Going to use this a lot
Sooooo much CSAM and lolicon on there. Disgusting. One question tho, what does “map” mean in this context?
“Minor attracted person” the whitewashed version of the word pedophile.
They’ve defederated from a bunch for no reason including lemmyunchained.net which is what I use. But I still see posts, why is that?
Who are they?
What does kiwifarm mean?
Here’s the beginning of the Wikipedia article:
Kiwi Farms, formerly known as CWCki Forums, is a web forum that facilitates the discussion and harassment of online figures and communities. Their targets are often subject to organized group trolling and stalking, as well as doxxing and real-life harassment.
So, it’s an assholefarm.
Although the name originated with one particular site, it looks like the name now applies to any site that serves a similar purpose. Bleah.
db0@lemmy.dbzer0.com is one cool dude. Their fingerprints are all over Lemmy in an obviously much needed manner. I’m glad I joined their instance.
Agreed! I’m really appreciative of folks putting this kind of work into Lemmy.
What’s up with all the pedo instances? Why are they creating instances in an open web? Are they dumb or something? It sounds to me that just registering the domain names of some of those could be considered a crime, nevermind openly inviting and hosting CSAM.
Honeypots and also to discourage people from engaging to corral people into big tech where surveillance is #1
Well, a few people have already pointed out the nastiest sounding one, so I’ll go with wolfgirl.bar
Pretty sure I’d want eye bleach after that.
Or of curiosity, what’s bad about that one? I’m a person who likes animal peepz, but if they’ve been defederated there’s gotta be more to it that “wolf girls the server”
Quick edit: I went there and I need an account to see stuff, which id rather not do if this server has issues.
Good question. I was only talking about my own personal tastes. I don’t know what would be objectively worthy of defederation, because what you’re talking about is fine.
Fair! Someone else here said the admin is a neo-Nazi so fuck all that shit
It should be shunned and defederated so the degenerate furries hide and learn shame
I looked it up through the link somebody shared on the comments here and the admin is a neonazi.
BOOOOOO yeah defed that shit hahaha
Damn furry Nazis.
Nazi furries have been a thing for years. The regular furries don’t like them.
This actually gives me hope. The biggest Instances coming together to stand up for good values and fight off vermin like Nazis, Pedos and other pests of Humanity.
Where/how is this obtained?
I’m curious about seeing an entire list of defederated instances.
Where/how is this obtained?
I’m curious about seeing an entire list of defederated instances.
fba.ryona.agency
Be aware that it doesn’t track when lemmy instances defederate from other fediverse instances correctly and hasn’t for months, and that it’s run someone from one of those 50 defederated instances.
This should include a user count in each so we can see just how many pedos and nazis are being punted to their own little disgusting bubbles
Most pedos are nazis and vice versa.
I don’t think there’s a reliable source for that claim, but it’s mean to two groups I don’t like and is therefore true
You got a way with words.
A little correction: while some of pedo instances are full of potential child abusers, others are based on non-offending (i.e. stop fucking children ffs) principles.
The latter are actually extremely important since they provide a gateway for otherwise potentially dangeous individuals to gain support and find professional help. Trying to instead blindly seed hatred towards people with any immutable traits is never productive, be it any mental disorder, sexuality, or otherwise, same as race and gender. In this case, it only prevents pedophiles from seeking help, making them more likely to become the child predator type and actually pose danger to kids.
Being a pedophile is not a choice. Being a Nazi or a child abuser are, and those should fuck themselves (but also reconsider what they do and what they believe in).
Being a pedo may not be a choice, but acting on it definitely is. And any pedo who has to go searching for pedo friendly communities is not looking for help, theyre looking to get off.
Its not a big secret to them that they have something wrong to live with. They dont need a support community to tell them how not to fuck kids. It shouldnt take that much self control for them to not fuck kids…
I’d even bet the vast majority of them already do just fine living normal lives. Just like the vast majority of “normal” adults dont go around raping each other just because they feel sexually aroused by someone.
How do you jump from “searching for pedo friendly communities” to “looking to get off”?
Imagine being a gay in a country where you’ll be in real danger if you’ll ever mention it. Would you like to have someone at least online to talk about how you feel? Probably yes. Same idea. It’s hard to hold up things that big throughout life, as just about any closeted LGBT+ person will tell you.
And then with any attraction that is actually dangerous and also illegal when acted on, like, well, pedophilia, or zoophilia, or biastophilia, or God knows what, there will always be people in doubt on whether they should go for it or not. And a community of people with the same issue telling them “we know how you feel, but CERTAINLY NO” would be way more productive than randoms on the Internet shaming them and putting them into the same bin as actual rapists.
Of course, most of them will probably never offend regardless. But people in doubt, as well as people in mental distress, are to always keep in mind. And if you ignore them, you get more child abuse, more suicides, and more pain and suffering in the world.
Maybe im wrong and they need support. Maybe im not. I certainly am in no position to say one way or another with authority. But i’d rather be wrong about keeping them shamed than be wrong about letting them feel positive about their issue.
Either way, i respectfully am done discussing the topic for now. I will give your opinions some thought though.
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…there is a joke here that I could make about incel forums. I’m not going to try to because it’s in poor taste, but my point is that I’m pretty sure that does exist…
Also, what’s your actual position if that’s your devil’s advocate position? I’m a bit unsure if the implication there is intentional or not
deleted by creator
Here’s something I found on the issue:
https://www.nomos-elibrary.de/10.5771/9783748904403-279.pdf
TL;DR it very much depends on the nature of the platform, but peer support platforms like Virtuous Pedophiles seem to be more good than bad, helping in combating child sexual abuse.
I’d argue it’s way better to give them a platform to vent, so instead of going to the street and killing everyone they post memes and share therapists.
Would I be grossed out? Hell yeah, just like with pedophilia. Would I still think it’s a good thing? Absolutely.
It’s easy to go with your gut feeling and think you’re righteous to follow it. It’s always harder to think it through and do and support what’s actually right.
Does kiwifarms.cc even exist anymore? I remember hanging out there while the main site was under maintenance, but it seems to have gone offline since then
I hope not, it was a toxic shit hole filled with complete fucking losers.
Not sure why this is downvoted, but’s been down for longer than a week according to isitdownrightnow.
Cause kiwifarmers are degens
coordinating bullying with the intent of causing suicide is frowned upon
Not sure why this is downvoted
Because people hate Kiwi Farms. The reason why people hate them because KF haves freedom and it’s unkillable.
People frown upon doxxing and stalking, the law does so too.
Especially if it is just to push people into suicide.
Any sane person would hate KiwiFarms. They are the degenerates of the internet. Akin to skinheads. Anyone who identifies as one of them should be banned, IP blocked and seriously beaten if encountered in real life.
WHAT COULD POA.ST HAVE DONE TO GET THAT MANY DEFEDERATIONS
edit: scrolled down in the comments to find my answer
Eientei? From touhou? Wonder what’s in there. Also was expecting to see the pawoo competitor misskey.io since several japanese artists went there after Musk bought twitter.
I checked. Mostly a handful-of-people instance doing whatever on some Pleroma/Akkoma instance. Not much to see there and not much of what I could see there seemed to make much sense to me. Perhaps the defeds are mostly preventative but I cannot tell.
What did poa.st do? All I know is that fashy HAL guy in the comments thinks the head mod is cringe and stupid and that seems like a good quality. Lots of very specific rules against cp tho which is a big red flag
It hosts Nazis. I don’t use that term hyperbolically; I’m talking about accounts with swastika emojis in their display names saying things like “the holocaust wasn’t real but it should have been”.
The path for said custom emoji is emoji/custom/windmilloffriendship.png, which I do not wish to link directly.
Yeah and a bunch of them got doxed which I won’t link to here
What was iddqd? My guess is gore, but not interested to check.
Dam thats an awesome instance name
Looks like it’s just following the pattern of racist shitheads cooping cool shit and being shitty about them. Like Pepe, the Punisher, and now this one’s using Doom.
From the site:
IDDQD: Instance For /vr/, /tg/, /g/, etc.
In other words an offshoot of 4chan’s gaming-related boards (vg - Retro Gaming, tg - Traditional Gaming, g - Gaming). Unfortunately it’s 4chan, so…
/g/ is the technology board, not gaming
Agh, right, so you are.
Larger point still stands though.
IDDQD is a cheat for the original Doom, as a random fun-fact. God mode, iirc.
I was.
It is basically a bunch of low quality shitposts between 3 people.
Disappointing.
Imagine calling this cancel culture
seal.cafe, cawfee.club and sleepy.cafe sure got welcoming names. Given the number of defederations, I doubt the contents are anything like the names.
Most of them were automatically defederated for not having adequate protection against bot signups, that got nothing to do with sketchy content.
As someone interested in both sides of security game theory, what exactly helps stop bots? I grew up playing RuneScape and hating bots before making r/Artisanvideos and hating them even more. I’ve always wondered if it’s a matter of automatically detecting precise repetitive patterns or just specific giveaway signs.
If the bots are welcomed and they don’t have good enough moderation, this is just sketchy content with extra steps.
