It’s easy to make statements, suggestions, and opinions, but it’s really hard to actually do things in practice.

We all want more people here. The question is “How?”, and simply saying “Make good defaults” is easier said than done (what are good defaults?) and “good defaults” is too simple of an answer to a very complex issue.

The conversation has been stuck here for over a year already as very few people are actually willing to develop and test these solutions which takes a lot of resources too.

The irony of the situation is that a lot of these solutions that have been suggested also need a central authority. For example, people have suggested creating a central hub where everyone can sign up to. Another example is creating a little quiz which begs the question “Who decides which instances goes there?”.

The best effort I’ve seen in trying to implement a solution are Reddit mirrors which aren’t well-received because nobody likes talking to bots.

As a personal anectode on “lowering the barrier of entry”:

Since I started this instance (ani.social), my goal in mind was to make it very easy for users to sign up. There’s no manual approval here (except when it’s being flooded with trolls). Only email verification is needed – just like every social media platform.

But sometimes when new users sign up, they comment or post on communities in instances that defederated from us.

Now I have to think about how I’m supposed to explain defederation to people, and the moment I do try to explain, that’s a big turn off for many.

Trying to hide federation is impossible. The Fediverse demands a new kind of usership that understands how the network works.

Again, I’m not saying Lemmy can’t improve (it can in a lot of ways), but it all boils down to developer resources and who’s willing enough to test these solutions to see what works and what doesn’t. On the other hand, it takes minimal effort to say “It needs to be better”.

Apparently redditors who are too dumb to register should stay on reddit?

How else do you use a service but register? How are people supposed to help others that can’t even register? Didn’t they register for reddit? How can they register for reddit, but somehow fail at registering for lemmy?

It’s like telling people “if you want to join lemmy, go to the join lemmy tent”. People go to the “join lemmy” tent, see sign-up booths with “general”, “LGBTQ”, “French”, “German”, “Italian”, “art”, … and just turn around going “OMG THIS IS SO COMPLICATED!!!11!1!!!1!”. Seriously, you tell me, what the hell can be done? Are they not self-filtering at that point? Do they want the server to be picked for them? They just open joinlemmy.org and are redirected to a random server or something? What if it’s directed to hexbear?

Is having the freedom of choice really so complicated? I do honestly do not understand…

We need to build a space for them to migrate into. Most of what I see on Lemmy is, frankly, whiny. If we want to grow we need to set a better example.

What I’ve seen many times is people stating the opinion that we don’t need to grow. We’re not some big commercial platform and we don’t need to satisfy some investors. Growth will come naturally. Or it won’t.

My opinion is, judging by the numbers… We aren’t growing for quite some time now, so Lemmy will most likely stay what it is. I’d love if it were a super attractive place, though. And everybody would like to join.

Sane defaults are always a good idea. I’m a bit split on the “minimal effort” though. Minimal effort is letting some algorithms dictate what to consume, simple truths, and not bothering with complicated stuff like freedom or privacy.

I support it because I want more people to talk about shows with

My comments in other threads are not intended to be isolationist, and when I reas others I fear you misconstrue many.

We are not saying “let them stay on Reddit and other corporate media”. We are saying “teach them, preach the benefit, and when they want to come, and are ready to come, they will.”

That is how you nurture a growing community, vs “make line go up.”

Currently, it seems most Lemmy users are very technically inclined, there are a lot of software devs and sysadmins. I certainly don’t mind that, but I would love to see a more diverse demographic. I do feel like some people here seem to think that technical knowledge strongly correlates with the ability to have intelligent discussions, which I don’t.

Lemmy is undeniably smaller but it feels a lot more free, like I’m not walking on eggshells when posting here.

On Reddit I have to mince my words on a lot of subs and be careful about using certain words, lest I want Automoderator to effectively shadowban me. Reddit is ruled by tyrannical power mod assholes who likely got slammed into lockers and beaten for their lunch money in high school, and are now using their role as an internet janitor to exert a repressed power fantasy. And don’t get me started on the Tintin-looking supreme cuck who owns Reddit Inc either.

Put it this way, Lemmy is a place where you can post about Luigi Mangione, or about the people involved in Elon Musk’s DOGE operation without risking a ban.

This is probably in response to the thread here.

I know I said something that may be taken this way, and I stand by it so I’ll repeat it here:

There was something in retail I learned. There are people who will come in on sale days, and they will demand perfect customer service, and demand the lowest prices, and ask for more sales and bring coupons, all while talking about how they spend so much money there and that they’re so loyal. Then they’ll leave and you’ll never see them again

You can spend time and effort with them, the ones who only care about the cheapest place, or you can spend time with the customers who are actually there regularly. The ones who get to know your names, who are loyal, or enjoy a sale sure but also will be there even when there isn’t one.

I don’t want to attract users simply because reddit bad, and cater our experience for people who can’t bother to learn just the basic tenant of the fediverse. I want to cater our experiences for those who are here daily, and the ones who are genuinely interested. It’s the longer slower approach, but we’ll stay more true to our goals

I’m not afraid of saying that yes, that is my opinion. I’ve helped a lot of people migrate here away from Reddit, and I also hold the opinion that sign up is a bit daunting for users - but it’s not impossible and it’s gotten much easier than it was even just a few years ago.

What I see more often from people dipping their toes into the fediverse is constant complaining and whining. I’ve been through… 5-6 waves of new reddimigrants, and each time there are a quiet majority who pick up the fediverse and start running with it, and I’ve chatted with a good many of them. However, there’s also a major chunk of people who immediately start complaining. There isn’t feature parity, it’s more confusing, it’s less stable, why can’t it do video - all of which have been answered a thousand times and are constantly improving.

To me it’s exactly like the people shopping for sales. They come in, demand the absolute best service, complain that their niche communities aren’t thriving, and refuse to even stick around for a week to see what it’s like. If they aren’t willing to even do the bare minimum of finding out “What is an instance?” then they’re not going to stick around when we tell them that none of us can afford to host video, or that we will never have stability like Reddit, or this, or that. So I say let them leave. We came here to the fediverse because we want to build something different, and we know there are shortcomings that come with it.

If people want to join earnestly and help us build something here, curate small communities that we can be proud of, then I welcome them with open arms. If they can’t even bother to read the first two sentences on the joinlemmy page, well, you make your own success there.

We just need to send them to a neutral instance and teach them the damn rules, especially about switching instances so they can go be in a place that fits their style. I vote Lemm.ee, as I agree with their “Administration, moderation, and federation policy”, and their site wide rules:

• No abusive language
• No bigotry
• No advertising
• No pornography

I miss being able to subscribe to posts. That’s a good Reddit feature that I think we’re missing.

In reality we should.

To many in lemmy are to happy to stay in their special little corner.

This isn’t a lemmy only thing.

Seen this since the 90’s and the start of Eternal September. ‘How dare we change or help these constant Lusers show up. How DARE we allow for differing opinions. Our way is the ONLY right way! Why should we allow this CANCER to infect us?’

To further emphasize that point: I’m part of a tilde community. I have been working on a migration document highlighting services and other options for social media migrants. The local newsgroup is sparcely populated. So the one technical guy that’s a frequent poster had this to say:

I think these followers and likes counters’ places unleash the wrong attitude. People write stuff to collect these by pleasing the potential reader instead of writing just facts. Fights over points and factually wrong answers that gained a lot of up-votes drove me away from reddit and SE. Some even write BS and get terribly upset if you point them to a man page that contradicts their statements.

Communication media should fit the job. Chats be volatile and fast while mail, mailing lists and news are allowing detailed discussions in long articles.

Sending people from twitXter or FB to Mastodon does not help them evolve. It just gives addicts a supposedly more free variant of their drug instead of getting them away from it.

Less is more!

The isolationists are wrong, and to me would rather watch the world burn for the sake of being proven right in their isolation than to help people.

I’m happy to stay in my weird little corner.

I found the enrollment pretty straightforward when I joined. The page I found when googling “join lemmy” listed the major instances and shortly summarized the concept of federation. I don’t think even mildly tech savvy people would have an issue enrolling but it’d definitely confuse my eighty year old mom.