I’m an American who has been living abroad for 20 years. I’m shocked, as I watch my home country being dismantled by oligarchs who sold US democracy. And I talk to other Americans and they’re just like “Oh, well, both sides, you know?”
Do y’all not realize what you’ve done? The US literally has no allies now, no rule of law, and no democracy. You’re living in an authoritarian dictatorship now, run by clowns.
How are so many Americans just going on with their lives like normal?
Americans need to stop shooting schools and start shooting CEOs
Consider brexit, an idea so dumb in every way every way, and yet it happened. Many journalists pointed out how russian influence and social media formed peoples votes, how it brought out the worst side in many of my countrymen, how many regretted it almost immediately. Turns out its really easy to get stupid people to hate things.
I’m both cases my view on the people is the same: they do understand. The information has always been there and publicised. People wanted this.
We don’t like what they want and we call them dumb, but it is no easy task to effectively use propaganda on this many people. It’s also easy to label people “stupid”, which is not true. This mindset genuinely exists. America is a Trump supporting nation. UK is a Brexit supporting nation (I don’t know if current regret surveys would translate into votes, Reform has more support than ever and it is increasing, and surveys last time also predicted that the majority didn’t support Brexit).
There have been a lot of podcasts looking academically how this polarisation and thinking has come about in the last 2 decades. I’m really interested in getting to the bottom of answers of how people are so convinced like this rather than the simplistic and inaccurate conclusion that “they are all dumb”.
The fundamental issue really does seem to be education, which is why conservatives everywhere try to cripple and dismantle it. Conservatism in the US spearheaded anti-intellectualism, but the ideology everywhere else is not far behind; constantly appealing to the lowest common denominator. This proves that conservatism does not believe it can survive with an educated populace.
I’m guilty of calling them stupid myself, but the only thing that separates anyone from cavemen is education, and the psychopaths and narcissists of society have shown us that our education systems are not fit for purpose, and holding back society. The failure in our ability to educate ourselves is one of the greatest threats we face.
Turns out its really easy to get stupid people to hate things.
That’s going to be the byline of this entire era of history. Oof.
In all countries the general population doesn’t understand anything. Certainly Americans don’t understand. If you’ve been to some countries that have already experienced the problems you mentioned, they might look more familiar to you, but I think Americans may be experiencing them for the first time.
See, my problem with this is how everybody is silently appending “except for me” to this opinion.
Bread, circuses and two minutes of hate.
Exactly. The point of all the forever wars and having the CIA overthrow legitimate governments was all in service of bread and circuses.
Even ostensibly “liberal” people are still sucked way more into their personal lives and their “dreams” than they are what is actually happening. I said to my mother recently that she has been “playing house” while the country has been falling apart around her for decades and that all she “did for her kids” was for nothing because she never stepped up to make sure the country didn’t fall apart, thinking that as long as she made enough money and got her kids a good enough education it would “save them.” She spent her life making me feel like her stupid fucking six-bedroom house with a pool that she lived in alone was more important than my life, especially with how much she bitched at me to get a job, any job, any time I was struggling, including when I got fucking cancer. I pointed out that she herself could have been in a much better financial position if instead of selfishly living in it alone she could have been renting out rooms or the whole damn basement to others at reasonable prices and helping alleviate the homeless problem instead patting herself on the back for giving a homeless person ten bucks. All I got were excuses and explanations and no accepting that maybe, jut maybe, she could have been more involved in politics or more compassionate in opening up her home. She even balked at the idea of me suggesting that she ought to be getting ready to Anne Frank this shit and prepare the house to house people who need to hide from Trump’s fucking goons. I said cool, so you’ll be remembered as a Nazi because you’re complicit in being too fucking selfish to share your house with people who literally might be murdered or deported. Your ass would have kicked Anne Frank and her family into the street. Needless to say, whole conversation did not go well. The boomers were so privileged and coddled that they literally got to achieve their dreams while choosing to ignore things like politics entirely.
These people are out of touch and fuck-nothing is going to wake them up. It’s going to take fascists on their doorstep coming for them and by then it’s way way too fucking late.
Instead of a traditional circus with tamed tigers and acrobats, the US has the unorthodox one, run by crazy clowns.
It largely depends on the part of the country as well. Here in Western WA, people that I know and work with are generally very aware that we’re screwed. However, we’re a very progressive part of the country. In Utah, where a lot of my family lives, people seem to have their heads in the sand (which is the Utah default, but in this case even more so).
You know in regards to foreign policy of US it is happening for long time, at least since 90’s. What Trump does right now just makes this stuff really obvious for ordinary people.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0bFs6ZiynSU
From my point of view as a foreigner the US political system is broken and nobody tried to correct it so this was only matter of time. And yes when something like this happens most people just want to get by.
There is nothing we can do. We haven’t actually been represented by our government in many many years. That doesn’t appear to have changed. For all the talk about owning guns to stop fascism, it is the vehement gun owners who won. A few of my friends and family are trying to leave the country. A few are too old, and a few still think their cult leader will actually make things better.
I would add that most of us aren’t allowed to talk about politics at work, and outside of work it is usually so explosive we avoid it there too so we can still have freinds and family. That leaves some social media as the only place these conversations take place.
But this is not new, is it? This circus has been going on almost for ever with all administrations. And why do you expect people to bother since they never got actively involved in the decision making ? All are being manipulated by big corporations and lobbying.
Wow that’s wildly wrong. This is absolutely a new and terrifying situation unlike any other presidency in us history.
Ah, hey, everybody going “everybody else doesn’t get it, but I do”. We finally see an example of not getting it in the wild.
This attitude is exactly the problem. The current situation is new and unprecedented. Not seeing the difference is the type of ignorance that allowed this to happen in the first place.
It’s the next chapter, but it’s always been where the story was going. The oligarchy has been running things since at least Reagan. Now the mask is off. Now it’s reaching the suburbs. You think being under the thumb of the rich and powerful is a new experience in America? Check your privilege.
It’s not new, but there’s still a degree of how bad it is. I only know personally, I didn’t change because I felt uncomfortable with something, I changed because it got so bad there was essentially no other choice. It was change something or die.
Now that’s only personal problems, but I think it applies society wide. People are still not at the breaking point, but the worse it gets, the more likely it’ll be reached. Once enough people feel so bad about it that it’s either dying or change for them, that is when real change will happen.
I’m not convinced this is new or unprecedented; we’re somewhere between the robber baron gilded age thing in 1920’s America and 1930’s Germany. Not saying either one is a wonderful place to be, but I’m not sure we’re on new ground.
There are two kinds of Americans. One kind fully understands what’s going on and is horrified. The other kind thinks it’s fine(if they think about it at all) but only because they figure they won’t be affected by it. Right now, that second group dominates. At some point, the numbers will tip in the opposite direction, but it won’t be pleasant.
What’s the alternative? I want to protest, but if I miss work then I might lose my job, which would cost me my health insurance and likely my house. I want to get back on social media and show people where I stand, but these MAGA people are rabid and will come after me for it. I’m ready to step up, but not while Trump has half the country behind him. I’m waiting for a numbers advantage. His approval rating is tanking, and once it gets low enough, I think people like me will be more willing to take bigger risks. Until then, we’re doing what we can while keeping our heads down.
Half of the country, more like 10% it’s the media pumping those numbers up.
You can still start getting organised while keeping your job, let the people who have the means will and time do their part, and do your part, your part may be smaller but it will still end up making a difference.
Even calling your representative will amount to something.
I hear good things about indivisible… Someday I’ll have enough energy to join up with them
It depends on where you are.
Where I live, that number might be more like 1%. At My parents place, it’s more like 95%, based on the number of Trump signs that have continuously stayed in yards since 2016.
There was a party a little ways into rural territory and a lot of us went and the hostess was terrified when we started talking bad about Trump because the window was open and the neighbors were hard Trump people with guns.
Where does your 10% come from? Of those that voted, he got 49%ish of the vote. Those that didn’t vote effectively made the statement they didn’t care one way or another.
Looking at it another way, the GOP controls both sides of Congress. One of those sides is the House of Representatives because they represent you. In all this nonsense, in whatever that “state of the union/campaign” was, those “representatives” cheered and voted with him. By extension, the people they represent.
Whether we want to admit it or not, it is far closer to half the country then 10%. If nothing else, it’s half the country that felt like having a say.
I want to protest, but if I miss work then I might lose my job, which would cost me my health insurance and likely my house.
I think this is exactly why protesting is necessary. It is the entire reason why unions emerged in the first place. Pool together resources, so everyone can join in on a strike and the strike can take weeks or months without people going hungry.
I blame the barely existance of affordable health care, unemployment systems, social housing etc. as a main reason for where the USA got to where it is now. It’s always everyone for themselves and people like Trump or Musk are the very personification of this basic idea underlining every aspect of USA society, on steroids. There is no society, there is only eternal struggle between all individuals who are all very scared of not being succesfull and/or ending in absolute poverty because they dare to think outside of this dominating idea that everyone is what they themselves chose/do/are…
I went to a weekend protest for my job.
I’ve started being more active in the community and finding people like me out there. It helps.
Vote with your wallet. Try not to buy from the big companies if you can help it. It used to be a pain doing this but with a password manager it’s easy to create another account and don’t save your CC on the site if it’s just a one time purchase.
Protesting is fine to let others know they are not alone but the people in charge will not care or see it.
Some know, but it’s very hard to see how to have a positive impact. I don’t have millions of dollars, and getting into politics is daunting (also, no money).
I’ve seen some say that the best thing is to make sure you have strong local communities and that at least I can try to work on. It doesn’t have huge visibility but knowing there is a network of people to count on when everything gets worse is a good thing.
I’m not a Australian and have never been to America.
It seems like I’ve experienced this feeling with America, and with Australia, more and more over the last decade.
I suspect that the answer to your question is yes, voters do not understand nor particularly care what is happening.
The vast majority of voters base their position on vibe-based reasoning. Low information voters, if you will.
Oh yeah, Australia is an authoritarian state due to… COVID laws right? Is that what you’re referring to?
COVID death camps?.. Or something?
We have an election in the next few months and our conservative party will likely win. They’re running a Trump-lite campaign around cutting government agencies.
Moreover we have always been very culturally, socially, militarily and politically aligned with the US.
For example, right now we tacitly support Ukraine but would have been very cautious in expressing that support since November last year. With our current progressive government it would be… challenging it Trump asked us to toe the line and declare Ukraine the aggressor. In a few months however I wouldn’t be surprised if our newly elected conservative government was much more willing to sing that song.
In my city last year there was a vocal group of conservatives trying to ban books at the library, and prevent the city supporting a LGBTIQ+ festival, and stoke foment over transgender people using public toilets. We import a lot of US conservative politics.
We may not seem like a particularly authoritarian country but we have ever been poised to become such. We’ve always scored very poorly on privacy, and media bias.
I’m Australian but don’t live there. It worries me how far right it’s getting. Australia being a very sporty place means transgender people in sport is a huge wedge that the Nazis can use. I’ve had to “disown” a bunch of family - including my mother, who I thought I learned my values from!
Yeah, I think it’s happening everywhere, less so in Australia than some other places.
Having a young son I often wonder about far right recruitment tactics.
I bumped in to a guy at work the other day, he was in the building as a vendor, so not an employee of my company.
He’d stopped what he was doing to rant and rave about politics to some poor soul he’d happened upon here in the building who was clearly just humoring him.
This guy was parroting everything Trump had said to the letter. As every word from that guy’s mouth was some golden truth.
That’s a third of the country. People like that. Completely lost to ideology, incapable of independent thought. Proud that Trump is winning so hard all the time, and he is, of course, because he says he is.
There are many individuals who have upped their meds such that they do not have daily panic attacks. It’s not that people don’t know, it’s that they feel powerless. Some have gone to stand in streets with signs, only to go home to face the same problems unfixed by their actions and then have a panic attack.
Non controlled substance example, a buspar increase, additional hydroxyzine increase, and added blood pressure med. That’s not advice, that’s simply 1 example you’re not seeing happening. And it’s a common combo such that it’s pretty non-identifying, like metoprolol with baby aspirin.
The usual methods of protest are not working. And as much as people like to scream on Lemmy that old methods will work, let’s be realistic. They’re ignoring courts, laws, the us constitution, why would they listen to some “nobody” on a street in a city they don’t visit. I wish to god it were that simple but this is a new order, you’ll need new methods.
In the meantime, who do you call? There’s no customer service line where someone takes your governance complaint and offers a resolution.
Do you know anyone with any governance power at all? Most don’t.
Common reported feelings include: elephant sitting on my chest (overlapping symptom between heart attack and panic attack), feeling ready to “climb the walls”, despair, controlled fear, suffocation, among others.
The feelings are there, but to what effective actions?
Common reported feelings include: elephant sitting on my chest (overlapping symptom between heart attack and panic attack)
This is such an apt description. There is absolutely a metaphorical elephant sitting on top of all of us.
I talk to other Americans and they’re just like “Oh, well, both sides, you know?”
I guess it depends on the people you are talking to . The Americans I’ve met all seemed kinda sad at what US is going through.
The Americans I know outside the US (including me and my family) are devastated at the state of the US.
The Americans I know who still live there fully agree with my sentiments, but also are coping because they have to. Some of the cope is not reading news as much, not talking about it as often, shrugging and trying to just get by. It’s not good long term but it helps get through things like this. I think that’s actually part of the point from the fascists– make things so shitty you can’t keep up the anger.
steve bannon calls it flooding the zone. it’s a classic russian trick, too. the government lashes out omnidirectionally because it’s just about seeing what the people are capable of preventing right now
Yes, as an American I understand what is happening and have known it was happening for years. I’ve done everything humanly possible to scream it from the rooftops and elect Kamala as I could. Now I’m just terrified and trying to figure out how to live with some semblance of happiness in this dictatorship because it is too late. I’ll march or fight or whatever I can but it’s pretty apparent that the insurrection act will be implemented soon.
BTW - in the people I know some put their heads in the sand, some are just depressed and others are not getting it.
friend you need to learn how to push back against administration processes. you dont do it head on. talk to your friends and get them comfortable with the idea of setting fire to things. this fight is hardly over, its just beginning.
