And I thought they were supposed to be shying away from fossil fuels.
I know it’s a joke, but many Tesla “solar” charging stations did actually use diesel generators a few years ago.
Still more energy efficient than a regular ICE car.
Debatable, it depends on what fraction of the power was supplied by the generator. The chemical-kinetic-electric energy conversion incurs great losses because of waste heat, and portable diesel generators are not always built with efficiency in mind. A charging station operating on 100% diesel to power an EV is much less efficient than a modern ICE vehicle of a similar mass sans batteries.
A charging station operating on 100% diesel to power an EV is much less efficient than a modern ICE vehicle of a similar mass sans batteries.
Citation needed. Do ICE engines not get hot and therefore also have great losses because of waste heat?
Presumably a generator making electricity for a charging station would only run when electricity is needed, while an ICE engine would be losing energy to heat the entire time the vehicle is idling in traffic.
Why would a diesel generator not be made to efficient and why are ICE engines always made to be efficient? How do you know which kind of generator they were using? Why would they use the generator for 100% of the energy needed?
Yes it gets also hot, but the battery as well, during charging and using.
To clarity, ICE produce so much waste heat that defrosting and heating your car is essentially free (energetically speaking) because the car needed to dump that excess heat anyway.
BEVs don’t even generate enough waste heat to maintain the battery temp, and frequently rely on heaters to maintain battery and cabin temperature.
So saying BEVs create waste heat too is technically true, but it seriously undersells the scale of difference between the BEV and the ICE.
We would just put diesel generators in the trunk if any of that would make sense.
No, an electric car powered by a Diesel generator is definitively not more effective than a combustion car.
The thought doesnt even make sense, since a Diesel generator is a combustion engine.
We actually do. The BMW i3 came with a gas generator as an optional range extender feature. It was not very popular. The majority of drivers drive less than 40 miles a day, and EVs easily encompass that distance, even if you have to run the heat.
And yes, an electric vehicle powered by a combustion motor absolutely is better in terms of efficiency down to extremely small scales. We’ve been using diesel electric vehicles for decades now because of their efficiency, torque, and long service life. They’re called ‘trains’.
We’ve had those for freight trains for decades now. That is also the model for many hybrid vehicles. They are well proven to be more efficient. Also, they don’t need to use the trunk, there’s a perfectly good space available where the less efficient engine used to be.
Keeping in mind that this is a hypothetical scenario and that I did point out that the overall efficiency is dependent on how much of the power is generated by renewables and how much by the on-site diesel generator:
- An ICE skips the conversion to electricity and its storage. Losses and losses.
- An ICE vehicle weighs less than an EV of a similar size because it doesn’t have batteries (see this chart to compare the energy density (MJ/kg, horizontal axis) of lithium batteries to gasoline and diesel)
- There is a point in the diesel/solar ratio at which the system’s overall efficiency is higher with an EV than an ICE, but I don’t know where that is because, once again, you’re pissing yourself over a hypothetical scenario.
It doesn’t really matter actually. Electric motors are so much better at delivering power, that you will get more range from a gallon of gas by towing an ‘flat battery’ EV behind a truck and then driving the EV than you will just driving the truck without towing the EV.
Doesn’t that highlight the torque that is available and delivered, more than efficiency of the electric motors, charging, heat losses, etc.?
There has to be a better example to prove your point than this.
Nope.
Last I ran the numbers, it seemed like on paper charging off an industrial scale generator was around 20-30% more fuel efficient per km than directly running an ICE car, but I based it on the advertised efficiency values of a random average seeming diesel car, compared to rather pessimistic charging loss and efficiency numbers for the EV. The inefficiency of even modern ICE cars is quite astonishing, even compared to the engine in a generator that can constantly run at the optimal RPM and load for efficiency.
Not to mention the electrical energy stored in their cells has a fairly strong possibility of having been generated by a power plant consuming coal or petroleum.
Even when powered by fossil fuel power plants, electric vehicles are still usually better in terms of CO2 emissions. Power plants benefit from scale, so they’re a lot more efficient than the tiny combustion engines in cars. Regenerative braking also saves a ton of energy when driving in the city.
The thing is, that EVs, and Tesla/Musk in particular are trying to continue a war against public transport that the car industry has been fighting for 100+ years at this point. Using the same power sources, an electric train is orders of magnitude more efficient than an EV, and even a diesel train is emitting less CO2. Hell, a diesel bus is probably still emitting less.
Edit: per person/passenger.
Of course, public transit is far better. Unfortunately it’s often easier (especially in the US) to convince people to buy a different kind of car than it is to convince them to use public transit.
Yeah definitely, but EVs are being pushed globally as a solution to climate change when they just aren’t really.
Yes the fossil fuel industry loved to point this one out. “Hahaha! We’re so dirty not even your clean tech can’t be clean!”
I live in Alberta where most of our power comes from natural gas. I’m also an emissions and sustainability engineer. I did the math on environmental payback for an EV where I live and the EV is WILDLY better for the environment despite the power potentially coming from fossil fuels.
If you tell me roughly where you live I can calculate emissions per kilometre/mile including the energy that goes into manufacturing the vehicle.
There’s absolutely jurisdictions where EVs don’t make much difference - but most places they do.
(large scale power generation is pretty effecient and most jurisdictions have some renewables in the mix. A car’s gas engine is much lower efficiency most places)
No disputes from me on your assessment. In principle I’m a big fan of EVs as a maturing technology and my only hangup with Tesla is its association with the person who is its CEO and the role he’s chosen to play in US politics.
I’ll gladly champion a vehicle that has incredible efficiency in converting its stored energy into mechanical work, especially when that stored energy came from a source that’s 40-60% thermally efficient (for combustion-based processes) or derived from solar/wind/geothermal/hydro sources and can be partially recuperated via braking. It’s too bad there aren’t more EV options for people who want or need a 3/4 or 1-ton pickup (of which I happen to be a big fan for hauling/towing/plowing).
The one area where I’m still dubious of electric vehicles is in cold climates, although I think I’ve read heat pumps are being used with success. Otherwise, I’d propose a small auxiliary tank (preferably propane, if infrastructure permits) and a “Chinese diesel heater”-type unit be installed simply for cabin heating/defogging. Few energy conversions make me cringe more than that of high-exergy electricity (derived from non-renewables) directly into thermal energy, convenient as it may be for the end user.
Of course, it’d be nice if that combustive heat could be generated from sustainably-harvested hydrogen instead of an extracted hydrocarbon, but at that point, a fuel cell running a heat pump would be even better, with resistive waste heat from the FC an added bonus. But now it all feels a bit Rube Goldbergian…
Anyway, what’s your take on EV use in climates with harsh winters (such as Canada/Alaska/Montana/Wyoming/Minnesota), especially when long range might be needed?
I have a few family members with heat pumps (I’m in Canada) and they work well. They do need to be supplemented for the coldest days, but they have an electric heater integrated into the system for that. Last month was particularly cold (every day was below freezing) and resulted in some very high power bills, but still worked out to be less costly than oil or even wood.
In terms of EVs not working well in the cold… yeah and neither do Diesel engines. Need to plug in a block heater if you want your diesel engine to start on a cold morning. Seems a really easy fix to have something similar for an EV, and since you’re plugging it in anyway, it shouldn’t be a big problem.
EVs are kinda a no-brainer in terms of energy usage. Way cheaper than gas or diesel, only problem is there’s a significant upfront cost at the moment. Once some lithium mines come online and we get some economies of scale going on making the batteries that upfront cost drops too. Other than the battery, an EV is way simpler than an ICE vehicle, and all studies have shown they will last significantly longer than an ICE vehicle. Electric motors aren’t all that complicated, the batteries are getting to be mature tech now, so there’s less that can go wrong with them than with complicated ICE powered vehicle.
My partner and I backcountry ski, iceclimb etc. One of the reasons we went with the Ioniq 5 was that we can sleep in the back and use the heat pump to keep us warm.
We recently did a weeklong ski trip with it. We drove from from Golden, BC back to Calgary, AB (250km/150mi) in -16C (3F) and used 70% of a charge. One day on that trip, we were backcountry skiing in similar weather and the car sat outside in that weather for 8 hours. No loss of battery.
One of the unexpected features I really enjoy is that I never pump gas in the cold any more. I programmed my work schedule and the car pre-warms for my commute. I get home, plug the car in, and it’s always ready to go.
Thanks for the great beta! When it finally comes time for me to retire the ol’ 14 y/o flat-4, I’ll keep your advice in mind.
Everyone acting like its okay to burn up teslas of uninvolved people because you disapprove of what Musk is doing. Then you should have no argument against pro-lifers burning down abortion clinics because they disapprove of what the doctors there are doing. Just saying.
Everyone acting like it’s okay to throw eggs at billionaires’ yachts because of wealth inequality. Then you should have no argument against rich kids throwing caviar at homeless shelters because they disapprove of being asked to share. Just saying.
What an infinitely stupid response. The proportion of rich people owning a Tesla with respect to all Tesla owners is vanishingly small. When you burn a Tesla of an uninvolved person, you are costing them tens of thousands of currency and are probably destroying their only car.
What is a straw man argument?
I’ll take Potent Potables for $800 Ken.
Their comment is still infinitly more humanistic than yours.
Ah yes, the tragic wave of innocent Tesla owners having their daily drivers ritually torched by angry mobs. Definitely a real thing, definitely not just a few dealership lots going up in smoke under extremely convenient circumstances. Definitely not insurance fraud from a company that’s hemorrhaging value and propped up by enough tax subsidies to fund a small nation. Let’s all clutch our pearls and act like someone’s grandma just lost her only ride to church. You good, or do you need a GoFundMe for your imagination?
Sorry I cant hear you over me enjoying the sound of beautiful flames on Tesla. Gives me asmr tingles.
One holds human beings in distress, and the other a garbage vehicle. Your comment is disgusting and shows how you value life.
lol, okay 666, I get it, you’re evil.
So edgy, please i can’t take it anymore.
You know what, the first time, I totally read your comment completely different than how you meant it. So my previous reply would have been different.
Even so, my comment was not disgusting, it was just using logic.
Do you know what? No, you obviously don’t, and it’s sad.
I wish that you would see the fallacy of your argument, but a cult of personality has you captured.
Empathy and reading a room are not some of your strengths.
Good day.
I agree. It’s a false equivalency.
It’s super similar to the idea behind the original tea party. They didn’t do insane shit like burn down buildings with people inside, they tossed tea into the water. If we could do something similar, I’m sure we would.
Yeah, burn them at the dealership instead!
Please dont. Find other ways to destroy them than fire if you want to, but fire endangers fighterfighters etc. Dont harm the working class to own the billionaires.
Counterpoint: fire
Actually burning Teslas is bad for the environment.
So make sure people are afraid to buy one.
Drop in the bucket compared to what enabling this billionaire shit bag is going to do.
Removed by mod
Good counterpoint. I don’t know
Maybe I’m dense but I don’t get this lol
Gasoline fumes are highly flammable.
Tesla arson
Oh duh lmao
Thermite: 3 parts powdered rust and 1 part powdered aluminum by weight. Example: 9 grams of rust and 3 grams of aluminum. It will burn through whatever is causing you problems and requires no fossil fuel. Some railway yards have thermite for welding tracks and the military uses thermite grenades it to destroy equipment.
*Teslurr
I am so slow lately I saw this yesterday and only just now got the joke
Nice
I think for the first time in my life I’m okay with cars burning extra fuel needlessly
Pro Tip, you don’t need gasoline to burn Tesla just puncture there battery and it will go kaboom. /s
PS : THIS IS A JOKE DON’T EVER PUNCTURE A LITHIUM ION BATTERY IT IS VERY DANGEROUS
PPS: ICE cars exploding in flames when shot is a Hollywood myth. Not so much for EVS.
I remember myth busters made a video about that, something like if gas tank was almost empty it atpeast got ignited otherwise nothing even when shot at gas tank.
Teslas don’t run on gasoline.
It runs on them.
That’s why you add a thickener. Mix some styrofoam into the gasoline and it’ll stick better.
I don’t plan on adding that to my camping kit any time soon but it’s a recipe passed down through the ages. Got it straight from a well-known cookbook that I studied religiously through my teenage years.
You don’t have to use fossil fuels. Just pointing out.
Vodka is renewable
But that constitutes alcohol abuse
Vodka is inevitable
This is America. We use corn based moonshine here.
Tito’s Vodka is distilled from corn.
today i learned! the defining characteristic of vodka isn’t the raw ingredient but rather the distillation and filtration process that makes it a neutral spirit.
according to the U.S. TTB (Alcohol and Tobacco Tax and Trade Bureau) and the EU regulations, vodka is:
- a neutral spirit distilled to at least 95% ABV (190 proof) and then diluted to no less than 37.5% ABV (EU) or 40% ABV (U.S.) before bottling
- usually filtered, often through charcoal, to remove impurities and flavors
- can be made from any fermentable sugar or starch—grains (wheat, rye, corn), potatoes, grapes, even milk whey
I wonder if biodegradable packing peanuts would work…I think they’re just starch, probably from corn.
I’d love to build a still someday…
What the other person said. You don’t need fancy yeast or bottles, either. I did it with 2 liter soda bottles and bread yeast, back in college.
your particular sense of innovation concerns me, but you don’t have to wait to start making booze at home. for real, all you need is a bottle of juice, some sugar, some yeast, and some time. maybe a balloon and a straw if you want to be all fancy. seriously, though, search “wine from juice” on youtube.
If anyone knows how to make home vodka, it’s a russian orc, hey, Yuri?
Tesla owners going from “Look at me!” to “Stop looking at me!” in the blink of an eye.
if i were looking to fuck with a Tesla, i’d pay close attention to any indication that the car was purchased recently. there are a LOT of people out there with a murder fetish, and i GUARANTEE that a lot of the nice new ones out there are really bait cars for gun owners that have been dying for a reason to shoot someone.
Yeah, probably a lot of Rittenhouse wannabes out there who wanna test the limits of castle doctrine.
yes, but this is a whole new monster…
- someone shoots a person who’s defacing their Cybertruck
- they’re convicted of murder because it’s proven they bought the vehicle specifically to bait a victim
- Trump pardons them
i defy you to tell me that this isn’t INEVITABLE.
What does Elmo taste like, dick rider?
here’s your reply.
Makes more sense than your other musk drivel !
may i ask which “other musk drivel” you’re talking about? i’ve clearly rustled your jimmies, but i still cun’t figure out why
Man I don’t even think step two would happen before trump pardons them. The US is so fucked.
EDIT: As an example of what you said, a sociopath who has recently bought a Tesla is the fucking president of the US
He can’t pardon in state levels yet, they’re testing that in Wisconsin.
What do you mean by this? My searching isn’t bringing up any such cases, just Wisconsinites charged with Jan 6 crimes getting pardoned, so I’d be keen to read about it.
Edit: Did you mean Minnesota? https://thehill.com/homenews/5180269-trump-derk-chauvin-pardon/
No, not like that. I meant being in control of state government.
Murder ia basically always handled at the state level, so Trump would not have power to pardon that crime.
He doesnt have the power to do lots of things he is doing.
Tell you what’s more likely? DeSantis or one of those babyfuckers will do it.
DeSantis was supposed to be the next Trump. He’s way too butthurt to help out like that.
You! You’re that pathetic Elmo dick rider from the other sub. He still isn’t going to give you money, you germ.
Vous m’accusez?
I don’t think you’re flaming the right guy here… maybe check your notes?
Your a Musk cuck. You probably work for him.
please keep replying to my comments! i love it! almost as musk as i do about musk musk! oh, and it’s “you’re”, you dumb cunt.
LOL You finally got a thing right. And it’s “much” not “musk”, you dumb cunt! You got musk on your brain.
okay, you get an upvote now. don’t spend it all in one place!
Bro you made exactly one comment where you tried to extend the base level of human empathy to Elon. Don’t you know you’re the devil now?
i know, i know… i actually have a troll now. on lemmy! lmao
Read some of his other posts. He still thinks Elmo is a flawed god and will somehow come good.
I think you just misunderstand their message. From what I can tell, they think Elon is unkind and generally disagreeable. Also, from what I can glean from their comments, they believe in the gentile approach similarly to the teachings of pacifists like MLK and Ghandi.
It’s not wrong, it’s just a different form of resistance than you’re used. You’re used to violent, aggressive resistance more similar to the teachings of revolutionaries like Malcom X and Hamilton. That’s not wrong either, it’s just a different form of resistance than he’s used to.
What’s important to realize is that we actually need both. In order to make change, we need to overwhelm the opposition with legal issues, gentleness in the face of violence, and rule-following at the same time as we overwhelm them with Tesla burnings, protests, and what have you. We have to do it all. Because they’ve been doing it all. They’ve been gently ripping at the seams of our systems until now, they can rip them apart. We need to rip at their seams at the same time that we tear at the loose ones.
Well said
I thought this joke was going to be about all the cybertrucks needing towing because of yet another recall.
