We StRaPpEd MaGnEtS tO rEcLaIm EnErGy!!!w
Downvoted for alternating case
Anything but metric!
Well the metric version is about 1014 PS, but honestly the difference between horsepower and pferdestärke is pretty negligible.
Sadly “745 kW” doesn’t sound as cool as “1000 horsepower.”
What are you on about? The metric unit for power is the Watt
What are you on about? The metric unit for power is the Watt
They said anything but metric. The SI unit for power is the Watt, sure, but there are other metric units that are not SI units. One of these is the metric horsepower. 1 metric horsepower is defined as the amount of power required to raise 75kg of mass 1 meter in 1 second against Earth’s gravity. I used pferdestärke because automakers use the “PS” abbreviation in my experience.
This unit exists as an attempt to have a value comparable to historic mechanical horsepower measurements but defined with metric terms.
Obviously Watts are the preferred unit for most things, but the automotive world still likes horsepower. So, metric horsepower.
Colloquially “metric” means the SI-system though. It’s not all prescriptively correct terms. Hell, even the name isn’t, as the French and English couldn’t
So I’m not goanna say your wrong per se. But you’re not exactly right either
So I’m not goanna say your wrong per se. But you’re not exactly right either
In what way am I not right? We’re talking about an electric motor for automobiles, and I gave a metric unit that automakers use. What’s more, I also gave it in kW! 🤣
Automakers using a unit doesn’t make it metric.
Got it. Metric horsepower isn’t metric. Forgive me for thinking a recognized metric unit is metric. And also for not putting the kW conversion in bold or something.
🙄
Watt? 🤔
1000 horses sounds cooler than 735 electrical pixies a second.
But horses are measured in hands, average of 16 hands so 16000 hands, 8000 people. That’s like 1 electrical pixie per 11 people
And somehow also more impressive than one Zeus per minute
Horsepower is a pretty standard way to advertise things in the automotive industry…
But it should be kilowatts. There’s no reason not to use the standard metric for power, it’s unnecessary fragmentation of figures
Until someone tests it independently, this should be considered BS.
I’ll give them some credence based on the cars their motors are already used in and the fact that their parent company is Mercedes-Benz. Doesn’t look like they’re a bunch of grifters seeking investment.
I suppose, but I’m skeptical of car manufacturer claims, too, until independent testing is done.
I hope this is real and think it’s awesome, but will wait to see if they exaggerated.
Well, the peak output is a useless number, that’s just record chasing. I think the continuous output is the number we should be looking at. That is a bit more believable and also started in the article that that number is an estimate for now.
So IMO they’re not making any wild claims. There’s “we measured this huge output for a short burst” and “we think that over a long period, it can do this slightly smaller, but still impressive number, but it needs to be verified”
Will be cool to find out if the continuous output is close to their estimate of course, but even if it’s lower, it’s still impressive by virtue of the super low weight.
The size is less of an issue than the power usage.
Does it also use 1000% more power to get that strength?
The only real benefit in that case would be robot mech suits.
I’m assuming the efficiency is similar to other electric motors. Maybe not the best, but likely acceptable. If it’s not, the product is DOA.
If my assumption holds true, it would allow for lighter cars and better packaging by making even more room for the battery near the bottom of the car since these engines are so small, you could easily just use one per driven wheel and forget about differentials and such. And hybrids that put the motor in a ZF 8HP transmission could have wayyyyy more power available from the electric bit, as space is sorta constrained there.
I think trains could also benefit from a weight loss IF these are durable enough. They have multiple motors usually.
Weight is important in vehicles not just because of energy efficiency, but because the more sprung mass you have, the more work the suspension needs to do. And unsprung mass is even worse, so ideally your motors are sprung mass. Currently weight is still a bit of an issue for EVs due to the batteries, but if they can make up for it a bit by having super light weight motors, the difference between EV weight and ICE weight becomes smaller. Weight is also super important to road wear, I think it is by 4th power. So 20% heavier means twice as much wear already.
Weight will help with efficiency. If you got to tow around less weight, you can go for longer.
The weight of the motor is insignificant compared to that of the batteries.
I was going to shit all over this thing, but if it can do ~500hp continuously that’s awesome. Wonder what kind of efficiency it has and what the cooling requirements are. That low weight puts us back into unsprung wheel motor territory, especially if it scales down well.
Oh man, continuous 500hp, 1k short burst at each wheel. I think my car caught fire just thinking about it…
Every time I get a faster car I need better tyres so the wheels never spin… The fuck kind of tyres would I need to stop 1000hp at each wheel spinning?
Just have the marketing department call them “Full Self Sticking” and then they literally can’t lose grip.
So when are we going to see these in trains?
Trains don’t benefit much from lesser weight.
Drones, and planes are the most likely to benefit from this.
Quite the opposite, you want the locomotive to be as heavy as possible without exceeding axle or track load limits. The heavier it is, the more weight it can pull before slipping the wheels.
My eScooter weighs 42 pounds.
A 28 pound motor that’s 750 kW?
Holy fuck.
That’s power density straight out of science fiction
Ebike would probably fold in half from the torque lol
It only does that at peak for a few seconds, practically, about a third that power.
So only 250kw continuous. How shit. Pffffffffffffft!
If we put electrified tracks down we could all drive ridiculously overpowered tiny traincars.
Make them stone tracks, because steel is too expensive, then make the wheels of gum, because steel wheels have too less friction. Then you have a street and a car.
Maybe we can also have them drive themselves and link them up for more efficiency also have them as a service so not everyone has to own their own and we can reduce overhead on servicing and infrastructure and … trains.
but then u cant splatter pedestrians and cyclists on the pavement like overmicrowaved hotpockets or ram the car in front of u for not going fast enough or brake check the one behind you for being to close or…
Everything but metric.
They’re based in the UK, they have no excuse.
Likely just the article
Did they update the page since you commented? I see kw and kg on there… 🤷
Now latest testing of an even lighter 12.7kg version on a more powerful dynamometer has shattered this record, with a staggering 750kW (>1000bhp) short-term peak rating, resulting in a new unofficial power density record of 59kW/kg
How much torque though? HP is nice but power is in the torque as much if not more than the voltage(HP)
The voltage/hp comparison there doesn’t really fit.
Power is in watts or horsepower. You multiply the torque with the RPM and a scaling factor to get power.
A higher voltage system could probably be expected to produce more torque and power from the same size motor, but a lot depends on the design of the motor.
Then to answer “how much torque though,” I haven’t looked into it but electric motors have a very nice torque curve across the RPM range. If a motor made all that power with low torque, then it must spin at super high RPM and need to be geared down.
That motor doesn’t look like it has enough mass to properly make enough torque to drive the weight of a car even if said car it made entirely of carbon fiber
Totally, and I think that’s why they thought it was worth a press release. In the article they go right to how they’re setting a new power density record with this design.
Electric motors are just really power dense. The article says they managed a short term peak of 1,000 hp with that little flat 12.7kg motor and the continuous output could still be half that.
Just the cooling must be crazy.
Out of curiosity I looked up something comparable. It looks like high-performance integrated drive units that have other stuff like the single-speed gearbox, differential, and inverter are still only in the dozens of kg.
Had an ex-friend who was a motorhead arguing that electric motors will never beat ICE because they lack comparable torque. Look, I’m no mechanic, but I never got my head around that.
“You mean they don’t have enough torque to run a US destroyer?! Someone should call the Navy.”
Seriously, if you’ve played with even a tiny electric motor, provide DC, it goes, instantly. What could he have possibly been trying to say?
I need to torque a shit
Dunno, I feel every rev head knew about that evs have no torque curve and plenty of it. The concern to me head always been weight and range when on track. EVs are great in straight line, but have a lot more momentum in corners. They generally have narrower tires as well, which is great for range, but poor for grip
I think he was trying to admit he doesn’t know shit about electric motors.
Tool companies need to nerf electric motors in drills to prevent wrists from breaking.
What could he have possibly been trying to say?
I mean, the general appeal of ICE engines is the fuel, not the engine. Gasoline is generally more energy dense than lithium.
Nah, his complaint was lack of torque. Very strange, never got it. Figured he was repeating fossil fuel propaganda. But he was a motorhead!
And yes, energy density is the thing no one talks about when raging against fossil fuels. A gallon of refined gasoline packs insane energy. I’ve run my 5-gallon, crappy Harbor Freight generator all night into the morning, powering the camp, heaters and all, never came close to emptying it. Contrast that with a monster LIPO4 battery that died in 48-hours only powering LED lights. (Gotta admit, something weird happened there.)
It is funny because electric motors have nearly unlimited* torque depending on the kind. If you have thick enough power cables and winding conductors, you can just keep pushing it harder to get more torque.
It is like the thing they are very good at, besides sound levels, double or triple the efficiency, low/no maintenance, simpler with less parts, no emissions, etc…
Literally the only good thing about combustion engines are their fuel source energy density.
I think the problem is that motorheads see the enshittification of the auto industry as a whole and just say it’s because of electric motors because it happened right about the same time as EVs started coming out and try to push back on the wrong thing.
Nah, his complaint was lack of torque.
Maybe just had torque confused with horsepower? That’s been the historical trade-off between gas and electric. Sure, its very easy to get an electric motor to jump into action. But it is comparatively difficult to generate the same amount of power with equivalent fuel density.
A gallon of refined gasoline packs insane energy.
Much of which is lost to heat when combusted, which is the historical hang-up.
Not that batteries don’t have their own heating problems. But the benefit of batteries is that they’re an engineering problem we can solve with miniaturization, which we’ve become incredibly good at. We’re at a soft ceiling in terms of engine chemistry. Petroleum is about as refined as we’re going to get it. Combustion’s math is what it is. Improvements to the efficiency of modern engines have stalled out as an automotive tool, even to the point that a gas engine powering an electric capacitor in a hybrid yields performance improvements over the gas engine just spinning the wheels directly.
“EVs lack comparable torque to ICE” - guy in my rearview mirror
He was trying to say that he spent too much time in a media bubble disconnected from reality.
These same idiots tell me my hybrid battery will only last 20,000 miles a cost $50,000 to replace. Yeah sure.
My parents had an original Prius and it was a weedy little car that made those two hippies really happy. If that was his only experience with electric cars I can see why he’d think that.
But the new ones are fucking rockets. I just don’t understand why they need all that. Can they make a cheaper one that’s got 300 horsepower?
I put my hybrid into sport mode when I actually need the acceleration, like quick highway merges or cramped city turns in traffic. If I kept it in eco mode like I normally do, or even just normal mode, the acceleration would be limited and I’d either be unable to merge or would cause an accident.
Yeah drivers in my area are shitty, I know. Unfortunately I can’t flip a switch and change their behavior.
Also sometimes it’s just plain fun to go zoom (when safe, obviously).
I have the same sort of fun in my manual transmission gas car
You probably need to downshift and rev it up to above 4000rpm to get near peak torque. And torque is lower below and above that.
An electric motor can hit peak torque at 0rpm. And maintain that peak torque up to, idk, faster than you or I will ever drive a vehicle. It’s available instantly, always.
If you get a chance, try driving the slowest, most boring electric car you can find. It will surprise you.
My peak torque is around 2500 rpm. Horsepower peaks around 5k for me.
And I like weird, complicated things I have to think about, which is part of why I drive a manual. Downshifting from sixth to fifth, hearing the engine go up in pitch, and feeling that extra torque feels like it would be more fun than just mashing a pedal.
Do they make manual transmission electric cars?
There are cars that have paddle up/down shift, and mimic semi-auto cars. A number also have different engine sounds you can choose from 😀
It’s all simulated and slower, of course, but apparently a lot of fun.
I don’t like paddle shifters. There’s no element of risk in missing a gear and blowing up your transmission
. I just don’t understand why they need all that.
Power sells, they can give that insane 0-60 sprint for very low cost, so it gets people to buy their product instead of a 6 liter V8.
I guess I’m really lamenting the death of the shitbox econo car.
It’s so sad, because we could make really great shitbox econo cars now. China, Japan and India are doing it, meanwhile in the U.S. we’re needing side-step assistance to climb into our tower-viewing position $80K+ ROADMASTER trucks and SUVs.
There are places in the US that, instead of banning giant trucks, are banning Kei trucks.
I hate this country.
The electric motor capacity also accounts for scenarios like a heavily loaded car going uphill with poor weather conditions.
And because it always can dump full power into the wheels instantly, unlike ICE cars (which are forced to burn an insanely wasteful amount of fuel to compete) that means every EV made for normal use has ridiculous acceleration
But even the biggest trucks out there don’t have 1,000 horsepower, and they’re built to haul heavy loads uphill in bad weather.
Electric motors don’t have a torque curve like ICE, which is why they don’t need a transmission. Those massive submarines run on electric motors.
I’m gonna slap one on my fixie.
Having a powerful motor is nice, but you still have to power it.
Easy! Just make this:
With this:
I’m gonna slap two on my fixie.
An engine for a third of the price of my weekly shopping trip….thats ace.
/s
Hopefully the numbers are correct. The article however is shockingly terribly written.
These get shit out by LMs at the rate of a dozen a day.
Ah they’re rating motors like they used to rate speakers?
https://www.amazon.ca/Mr-Dj-PSE65BT-Portable-Rechargeable/dp/B078BT8DB4
Car engines, for probably the past 100 years, have always been advertised based on their peak power rating, not what they can produce continuously. Cars are not designed to have their accelerator peddles floored for hours on end, nor is this even possible to do, as you’d eventually hit a curve and need to slow down.
This is especially the case for high performance vehicles, which usually have more demanding maintenance requirements just from normal operation, let alone from being abused like that.
“pedals”, I beg of you. Please.
Ah happy days. I’ve not heard PMPO in so long!
